tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-83444742390807995642024-03-13T10:33:42.748-07:00I looked for loveThe struggles of a Deist ChristianKathrynhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03272307621143522274noreply@blogger.comBlogger54125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8344474239080799564.post-58796696217059458402018-09-01T22:01:00.001-07:002018-09-01T22:02:09.460-07:00Some thoughts<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
<span style="font-size: x-large;">I found Sunday School pretty boring as a child. None of the other girls in the class liked me. The different mothers took turns with the class (although i don't remember my mother having that class). Largely we took turns reading a couple of paragraphs from the SS "Quarterly." That Quarterly was provided by whatever independent Baptist whatever that church belonged to provided for the churches affiliated with them.</span><br />
<span style="font-size: x-large;"><br /></span>
<span style="font-size: x-large;">When i was between 11 and 13, there was a lesson i'll never forget. I don't remember any particular scripture being linked to the lesson, it may have been Romans 8.28. (Although Jeremiah 1.5 and Psalm 139.13 talk about God knowing the writer "from my mother's womb" and God "knitting me together.")</span><br />
<span style="font-size: x-large;"><br /></span>
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace; font-size: large;">"And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose." Romans 8.28 (NIV)</span><br />
<br />
<br />
<span style="font-size: x-large;">Nevertheless, the passage / paragraph i had to read told us, in detail, that God <i>chose</i> my parents for me, knew they would be the perfect family for me, chose them deliberately. There was much more to it than this, but i found the whole thing really offensive. As my family was at least dysfunctional and severely lacking in love and understanding, i don't see how i could possibly like such an opinion. And that is what it was, someone's opinion / interpretation of these scriptures. </span><br />
<span style="font-size: x-large;"><br /></span>
<span style="font-size: x-large;">I read "my paragraph" with a great deal of contempt in my voice, i was angry. But i did look up to see the response from the teacher, and she was angry. I "ruined" her class. We never had any discussion of these opinions unless we were reiterating the same opinion.</span><br />
<span style="font-size: x-large;"><br /></span>
<span style="font-size: x-large;">From that time, i pretty much struggled with all that i was taught in that church. (And i wish i'd become Anglican / Episcopal at that point.)</span><br />
<span style="font-size: x-large;"><br /></span>
<span style="font-size: x-large;">I know many, many, many people who tell me over and over again, "Everything happens for a reason." And, "God promises to guide our every step." And, that God promises to give me the "desires of my heart." </span><br />
<span style="font-size: x-large;"><br /></span>
<span style="font-size: x-large;">This doesn't begin to match my belief system and experience. I don't argue anymore, although if they are persistent enough i will try to explain. Telling someone who has been raped or abused that "everything happens for a reason" is simply cruel. (</span><span style="color: #444444; text-transform: uppercase;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace; font-size: large;"><a href="https://christianindex.org/76-everything-happens-reason/" target="_blank">IS EVERYTHING THAT HAPPENS FOR A REASON?</a> - LINK</span><span style="font-family: "roboto"; font-size: 25px;">) </span></span><span style="font-size: x-large;">Telling someone that God guides their every step when they have made some incredibly poor choices and the consequences for that are severe is a real questionable thing to say. Telling ME that God will give me the "desires of my heart" when my desires are to have children, drive again, be more functional, be well again. The children thing is never going to happen, and this is beyond cruel. </span><br />
<span style="font-size: x-large;"><br /></span>
<span style="font-size: x-large;">This is a really long discussion that i've been approaching on and off for years now. The idea that everything that happens has a "reason from God" runs in conflict with free will. "Everything for a reason" implies "caused by God." </span><br />
<span style="font-size: x-large;"><br /></span>
<span style="font-size: x-large;">I've long had a hard time with people who claim their beautiful weather for a picnic was in response to their prayer, while nearby farmers are praying for desperately needed rain, or some child somewhere is desperately praying that they won't be abused anymore, or that their parents won't get drunk or get divorced. </span><br />
<span style="font-size: x-large;"><br /></span>
<span style="font-size: x-large;">My Christian college taught us that "God's will is for His people to be Christlike." AND that nearly all the promises that people like to claim - as an individual - were actually promises made to a nation, the people of Israel. And that almost always making claims for ourselves on promises made to the nation of Israel are scriptures taken out of context. </span><br />
<span style="font-size: x-large;"><br /></span>
<span style="font-size: x-large;">I believe in God, our creator. I believe he sent Jesus. I also believe that the majority of what churches teach these days are more in line with the Pharisees of Jesus' day than with what Jesus came to bring to us. Churches (like our gov't) like to control people and using fear or other manipulative methods work in their favor. </span><br />
<span style="font-size: x-large;"><br /></span>
<span style="font-size: x-large;">I'm coming to believe that many of the passages in the Bible used to create fear or the threat of "doom" are actually warnings. For example, telling Christians not to be "unequally yoked" (married, or say, business partners) with unbelievers is a warning that things are not likely to work out in the long run. </span><br />
<span style="font-size: x-large;"><br /></span>
<span style="font-size: x-large;">There is plenty more to say, i think, but that is all i can think of at the moment.</span><br />
<span style="font-size: x-large;"><br /></span>
<span style="font-size: x-large;">(</span><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace; font-size: large;"><a href="https://www.gotquestions.org/everything-happens-for-reason.html" style="text-decoration-line: underline;" target="_blank">IS IT TRUE THAT EVERYTHING HAPPENS FOR A REASON?</a> - LINK with scriptures that disagrees with my view</span><span style="font-size: x-large;">)</span><br />
<span style="font-size: x-large;"><br /></span>
<span style="font-size: x-large;"><br /></span>
</div>
Kathrynhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03272307621143522274noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8344474239080799564.post-30931084098340799992014-03-08T08:43:00.001-08:002014-03-08T08:43:53.243-08:00Not Sure How to Tell This<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin: 0in;">
<span style="color: black; font-family: Papyrus; font-size: 16.0pt;">I had an extensive conversation with someone a
couple of weeks ago. I'm not sure how to talk about it without giving out
private info i've no right to share, but the conversation had a massive impact
on me and how i see things.</span></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin: 0in;">
<br /></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin: 0in;">
<span style="color: black; font-family: Papyrus; font-size: 16.0pt;">Basically it came down to "behind the
scenes" info. How person A in my life did something that profoundly
impacted the outcome of a situation for person B, but that B never knew of that
until years later. B was satisfied with that, feeling that A had his back
even tho he never knew about it. </span><span style="color: black; font-family: Papyrus; font-size: 13.5pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin: 0in;">
<br /></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin: 0in;">
<span style="color: black; font-family: Papyrus; font-size: 16.0pt;">That doesn't work for me. I'm glad that
B is reassured, but it doesn't work for me. Because there was no joint
feeling in all of this. Person A could have drawn a group together, made
this group feel like there was teamwork and caring in that group. The
people in the group could then feel reassured, loved, and that the group could
pull together. If we had felt that A and the rest of the group "had
our backs," there would have been a sense of security. We didn't
know that, and at the time there was no group feeling, no sense of reassurance,
of love, or anything but intense loneliness. </span><span style="color: black; font-family: Papyrus; font-size: 13.5pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin: 0in;">
<br /></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin: 0in;">
<span style="color: black; font-family: Papyrus; font-size: 16.0pt;">It is hard to state this because of the
limitations, but when being told this what i was thinking of was how often i'm
told, "When it is all over, we will understand." Meaning we
will understand how God was there for us in this situation or that, situations
we did not see the hand of God at the time. There is a very superficial,
hollow, rather trite email circulating. It is someone talking about their
difficult day and then God tells them they couldn't find their car keys making
them late for ______ because that kept them from getting in a car accident,
etc., etc. </span><span style="color: black; font-family: Papyrus; font-size: 13.5pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin: 0in;">
<br /></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin: 0in;">
<span style="color: black; font-family: Papyrus; font-size: 16.0pt;">I do not see the world this way and sometimes
it makes me really angry. IF God works that way, how is it that bad
things still happen. How is it that children desperately pray to be saved
from abuse or hunger and no one shows up?</span><span style="color: black; font-family: Papyrus; font-size: 13.5pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin: 0in;">
<br /></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin: 0in;">
<span style="color: black; font-family: Papyrus; font-size: 16.0pt;">When i think of the story of A doing this but
no one knowing until later, i think of how that knowledge could have helped
that collection of people pull together, feel comforted, loved, valued.
Instead, time just plodded on, the collection of people remained
isolated, disjointed, unaided, until they eventually went their own way.
Learning of all of this after the fact does nothing to reassure me.
It doesn't change the sense of desolation i had at that point, desolation
that has shaped my entire life. I see missed opportunities. In
fact, those missed opportunities that had the ability to do so much good make
me really, really angry. Person A may have been demonstrating love to B or others in that motley collection, but because no one knew about it, there was no experience of love.
I'm angry about it all.</span><span style="color: black; font-family: Papyrus; font-size: 13.5pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin: 0in;">
<br /></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin: 0in;">
<span style="color: black; font-family: Papyrus; font-size: 16.0pt;">The thought that someday i'll stand before God
and understand he "had my back" when this happened or that did not is
not the least comforting to me, and after that conversation a couple of weeks
back it is even less so. Because i do not feel God in any way. I
don't see his hand in the way things work, except that i know if he withdrew
his hand everything would collapse. However, i don't see his finger
pushing this situation or that. I feel, as i did before, alone, isolated,
forsaken and isolated. It makes me angry to think i'll later have to hear
God say, "I was there for you," when i did not feel or experience it.</span><span style="color: black; font-family: Papyrus; font-size: 13.5pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin: 0in;">
<br /></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin: 0in;">
<br /></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin: 0in;">
<span style="color: black; font-family: Papyrus; font-size: 16.0pt;">54</span><span style="color: black; font-family: Papyrus; font-size: 13.5pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
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Kathrynhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03272307621143522274noreply@blogger.com1tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8344474239080799564.post-62056345090862988162013-12-22T10:15:00.000-08:002013-12-22T10:15:49.728-08:00Duck Dynasty?<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
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<span style="font-size: large;"><span style="color: black; font-family: Papyrus;">It seems everyone has an opinion about this, recently.</span><span style="color: black; font-family: Papyrus;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div>
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<span style="font-size: large;"><span style="color: black; font-family: Papyrus;">Synopsis: Duck Dynasty is a TV program on A&E about a
family that lives rather backwoods and has made a lot of money from creating a
duck call thing which has sold well. The family hunting and business is
much of the focus as well as how the women manage things. The family also
is Christian and before every meal a prayer is said. It seems to be a
rather popular show.</span><span style="color: black; font-family: Papyrus;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div>
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<span style="font-size: large;"><span style="color: black; font-family: Papyrus;">(Duane likes the program and has watched a few while i read.
I've not actually watched an entire program, but have heard it as i focus
on something else.)</span><span style="color: black; font-family: Papyrus;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div>
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<span style="font-size: large;"><span style="color: black; font-family: Papyrus;">There have been calls from some people to make the family stop the
prayer on the program, or at least edit that out.</span><span style="color: black; font-family: Papyrus;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div>
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<span style="font-size: large;"><span style="color: black; font-family: Papyrus;">Recently, the father Phil, was interviewed by a magazine and he
made statements about homosexuality that were not complementary. (For the
record, my understanding of what was said was simply his opinion and being
confused about how a man can be attracted to another man. That is a
confusion many heterosexuals would share, i think.)</span><span style="color: black; font-family: Papyrus;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div>
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<span style="font-size: large;"><span style="color: black; font-family: Papyrus;">So there has been a big ruckus about this. People who don't
see homosexuality as a problem are calling for Phil to be censored.
People who do see this as a problem are calling for "support
Phil." A&E has decided that Phil won't be allowed on the program
any more. As this is a program about his family, it is doubtful the
program will continue. </span><span style="color: black; font-family: Papyrus;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div>
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<span style="font-size: large;"><span style="color: black; font-family: Papyrus;">Here is the thing: This country has freedom of speech.
Or it did. There are many things that cannot be said. You
cannot protest a president where he can see you anymore. Protesters have
to be in a "free speech zone" some miles away. You cannot shout
"Fire!" in a crowded theater if there is not fire. You cannot
make jokes about bombs in an airport. </span><span style="color: black; font-family: Papyrus;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div>
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<span style="font-size: large;"><span style="color: black; font-family: Papyrus;">But overall, we live in a land that largely allows you to share
your opinion. If you don't like the opinion that is stated, you have the
freedom to disagree, rebut, or to boycott a TV show or business that presents
opinion with which you disagree. </span><span style="color: black; font-family: Papyrus;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div>
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<span style="font-size: large;"><span style="color: black; font-family: Papyrus;">I support all those things. I support the people who want to
support Phil, who want to boycott A&E, who want to express their belief he
has the right to say those things and believe those things. I ALSO
support the people who disagree with Phil. I support their right to
boycott the show (tho i seriously doubt most of them watched it). </span><span style="color: black; font-family: Papyrus;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div>
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<span style="font-size: large;"><span style="color: black; font-family: Papyrus;">I hear a lot from Christians these days wanting to return our
nation to being a "Christian country." Frankly i doubt that our
country ever was that, but nevertheless there is much call for it. The
truth is that our Founding Fathers gave us freedom of religion. Whether
by design or by accident that means freedom for all religions, even pagan,
Muslim, Wiccan, or atheist. </span><span style="color: black; font-family: Papyrus;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div>
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<br /></div>
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<span style="font-size: large;"><span style="color: black; font-family: Papyrus;">This means that all such people have the right to share their
beliefs/opinions, and other people have the right to disagree, rebut, or
boycott. I am concerned that there is a tendency (or it seems to be) to
be biased against Christian speech these days. None the less, free speech
is free speech, no matter the opinion and freedom of religion is freedom no
matter what the style.</span><span style="color: black; font-family: Papyrus;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div>
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<span style="font-size: large;"><span style="color: black; font-family: Papyrus;">Christians have become so militant these days. I really
don't understand. There is so much anger in what they fight about.
And it often seems so petty to me. </span><span style="color: black; font-family: Papyrus;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div>
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<span style="font-size: large;"><span style="color: black; font-family: Papyrus;">Regardless of your belief in Jesus - whether you believe he was
the Christ sent by God, or a naive dreamer wandering - one thing he preached is
LOVE. To love our fellow-man. To do good to those who would hurt
me. To help the poor, the sick, the needy, the orphan and the fatherless.
</span><span style="color: black; font-family: Papyrus;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div>
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<span style="font-size: large;"><span style="color: black; font-family: Papyrus;">So much of what i see Christians posting these days seems to be
grounded in hate. Hate of gays, hate of Muslims, hate of the way
Christians are treated. I really don't understand this.</span><span style="color: black; font-family: Papyrus;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div>
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<span style="font-size: large;"><span style="color: black; font-family: Papyrus;">Jesus said we would be known as his followers by our love.
He also said that the world would hate us. So, folks, where is the
confusion? Why are people surprised and baffled by the the response of
the world?</span><span style="color: black; font-family: Papyrus;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div>
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<span style="font-size: large;"><span style="color: black; font-family: Papyrus;">(BTW, i know quite well that i am severely lacking in the love
Jesus promised. I pray for it, and i strive to love, but i know that even
if i don't speak it i am often critical of others and do not possess the love i
should as a follower of Jesus.)</span><span style="color: black; font-family: Papyrus;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div>
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<span style="color: black; font-family: Papyrus; font-size: 13.5pt;">53<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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Kathrynhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03272307621143522274noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8344474239080799564.post-88157652084154367202013-09-17T07:09:00.001-07:002013-09-17T07:09:51.618-07:00Horrible Incident<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
<span style="font-size: large;">Yesterday there was a horrific incident at the Washington Navy Yard (D.C. area). Thirteen people were killed, including the shooter, and eight others were wounded. Those hurt or killed were a mix of civilian workers and military contractors.</span><br />
<span style="font-size: large;"><br /></span>
<span style="font-size: large;">(My commentary: It is interesting how something like this happens so often when there are other things to distract from. Right now the President is pushing war with Syria, and innocent people have been shot, one killed, in conflicts with the police in both New York and in North Carolina. Also, i strongly believe that 100% of these type of shootings with multiple people shot/killed have been done by persons dosed by psychiatrists with heavy-duty psychotropic medications that really mess with people's ability to function normally. (I have references for this belief.) I think our gov't covers up the "legal" drug use given our military folks and uses these things to justify pushing harder for gun control. In fact - really conspiracy theory here - it wouldn't surprise me if someone behind was coaching some of these folks to act on outrageous thoughts.)</span><br />
<span style="font-size: large;"><br /></span>
<span style="font-size: large;">I have a cousin in the Navy. We are not close. Evidently she was suppose to be stationed in D.C. for another cousin wrote this yesterday:</span><br />
<span style="font-size: large;"><br /></span>
<span style="font-family: Georgia, Times New Roman, serif; font-size: large;">Hey sis, today we are thankful that God has a plan we don't understand and He made the doors to DC close and instead sent you to Hawaii. Hope you are doing well. Love you . . . </span><br />
<br />
<span style="font-size: large;">I, too, am thankful my cousin was not there to be injured. However, as always the theology behind such a statement raises too many questions for me. If God adjusted things so my cousin would not be there to be shot, did he then PLAN for this shooting to occur and those 20 people be injured or killed? Or if God did not plan for this man to shoot folks, why would he move my cousin out of the way, but not those other people? (I guess that is part of the inscrutable plan i don't understand.)</span><br />
<span style="font-size: large;"><br /></span>
<span style="font-size: large;">I cannot live with or believe in this theology. Which seems to put me at odds with most of the Christian community.</span><br />
<span style="font-size: large;"><br /></span>
<span style="font-size: large;"><br /></span>
</div>
Kathrynhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03272307621143522274noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8344474239080799564.post-68425753450093545092013-08-11T17:32:00.000-07:002013-08-11T17:32:54.584-07:00Strange Thoughts<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
<span style="font-family: Georgia, Times New Roman, serif; font-size: large;">We went to church this morning. We don't go all that often any more. We were there last week and i guess Duane promised to be there this week because after the service he was going to help Tim (the pastor) with something in planning for next week. </span><br />
<span style="font-family: Georgia, Times New Roman, serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span>
<span style="font-family: Georgia, Times New Roman, serif; font-size: large;">Tim wasn't there.</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Georgia, Times New Roman, serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span>
<span style="font-family: Georgia, Times New Roman, serif; font-size: large;">Margaret was, however. I enjoy her services. At the end she had us close our eyes and imagine Jesus in front of us, arms outstretched and eyes full of love. We were to walk to him and put our cares and worries in his hands, and then see those cares and worries disappear.</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Georgia, Times New Roman, serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span>
<span style="font-family: Georgia, Times New Roman, serif; font-size: large;">Wow.</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Georgia, Times New Roman, serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span>
<span style="font-family: Georgia, Times New Roman, serif; font-size: large;">Except when i got to Jesus i found him to be a cardboard cut out. </span><br />
<span style="font-family: Georgia, Times New Roman, serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span>
<span style="font-family: Georgia, Times New Roman, serif; font-size: large;">Can you tell i struggle to find Jesus real in my life?</span></div>
Kathrynhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03272307621143522274noreply@blogger.com3tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8344474239080799564.post-21504128971357460772013-02-16T11:36:00.002-08:002013-02-16T11:36:50.938-08:00Post number 50<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
<span style="font-size: large;">I just hit post number 500 at my other blog.</span><br />
<span style="font-size: large;"><br /></span>
<span style="font-size: large;">I hesitate to post here because my feelings about God are generally not very positive.</span><br />
<span style="font-size: large;"><br /></span>
<span style="font-size: large;">No one understands God, of course. Reportedly God has revealed himself to us thru the Bible, and so everything we "need to know" is there. Which leaves religion big, small, and in between, confusing, frustrating, harsh, blind, and with tons of different theological approaches. The Bible is quite confusing, as well. God is a god of vengeance of war, of peace, of love, of justice, of harshness. </span><br />
<span style="font-size: large;"><br /></span>
<span style="font-size: large;">Quite honestly, i do not believe that God interferes in our lives much at all, at least not on a physical plane. I don't believe that God caused this person not to leave on time so that they are not in a car accident but they never know it. BECAUSE if you believe that, then you have to believe the opposite and that God chose/caused the accidents that do happen. It drives me to madness to hear people say, "Well, God must have a plan in all of that." </span><br />
<span style="font-size: large;"><br /></span>
<span style="font-size: large;">In the same manner, prayer has me quite confused. For as much as prayer seems to resolve anything, i might as well walk in tight circles in my bedroom and say that it helps. I really, really do not "get it."</span><br />
<span style="font-size: large;"><br /></span>
<span style="font-size: large;">Now, i can see that everything, everything is a miracle. </span><br />
<span style="font-size: large;"><br /></span>
<span style="font-size: large;">I do believe that there are numerous times each and every day that we each miss death by minutes or even seconds. I do believe that God promises that all things will work out to his glory ultimately. I do believe that prayer helps align us to the will of God - whatever that is. Or changes our hearts somehow. But do not expect me to believe that God causes every tiny thing or has it all planned in detail. And if you tell me, "It must be part of God's plan," don't be surprised to hear me scream.</span></div>
Kathrynhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03272307621143522274noreply@blogger.com1tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8344474239080799564.post-53395505661443117692012-08-11T08:49:00.000-07:002012-08-11T08:49:27.472-07:00Life is unfair . . .<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: 'comic sans ms', sans-serif;">. . . and God is inept.</span></span><br />
<br />
<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: 'comic sans ms', sans-serif;">At least, that is certainly how life looks to me, often. </span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: 'comic sans ms', sans-serif;"><br />
</span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: 'comic sans ms', sans-serif;">That is a statement that could fall into many categories. </span></span><br />
<br />
<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: 'comic sans ms', sans-serif;">I started this several days ago, but don't know exactly where i had planned to take this post.</span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: 'comic sans ms', sans-serif;"><br /></span></span>
<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: 'comic sans ms', sans-serif;"> </span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: 'comic sans ms', sans-serif;">I've been reading a number of blogs recently which deal with doubt in the Christian faith. Most are struggling with doubt themselves, or are open to doubt (as opposed to condemning it as "sin"). <a href="http://blog.beliefnet.com/omeoflittlefaith/2010/10/trendy-doubt.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+JasonBoyett+%28JASON+BOYETT%3A+O+Me+of+Little+Faith%29">Jason Boyett</a> even reported that some people are coming to think that doubt is "trendy." Say what? "Trendy" is the type of shoes you wear or the TV program you watch. Doubt is definitely not so fun. </span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: 'comic sans ms', sans-serif;"><br />
</span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: 'comic sans ms', sans-serif;">Three thoughts from his post with which i agree (tho i think these are from somewhere else):</span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: 'comic sans ms', sans-serif;"><br />
</span></span><br />
<b>Never trust anyone who hasn't wrestled with doubt.</b> Why? Because Jesus is an equal-opportunity offender, and if his words don't cause you to ask hard questions, you're not hearing them right. Totally agree.<br />
<br />
<b>Doubt is not the opposite of faith.</b> Citing <a href="http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0891078452?ie=UTF8&tag=jasoboye-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=0891078452">Os Guinness</a>, Ray says doubt shouldn't be confused with unbelief, which springs from the will, but instead is something that springs from honesty or confusion. Bingo.<br />
<br />
<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: 'comic sans ms', sans-serif;"> </span></span><br />
<b>The object of faith is a Person, not a proposition.</b> Am I doubting my understanding of God, or am I doubting God himself? <span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: 'comic sans ms', sans-serif;"> </span></span><br />
<br />
<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: 'comic sans ms', sans-serif;">From one of the other blogs i read i found: <a href="http://cliff-martin.blogspot.com/">Outside The Box</a>. I've only just begun to explore this blog, but what i've read so far is mind blowing. It will take time to read and digest. </span></span><br />
<br />
<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: 'comic sans ms', sans-serif;"><br />
</span></span></div>Kathrynhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03272307621143522274noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8344474239080799564.post-66414438671929463082012-05-07T15:14:00.001-07:002016-11-12T20:26:56.758-08:00Matthew 6<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
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<span style="font-family: papyrus; font-size: 21.3333px;">But you, when you pray, go into your room, and when you have shut your door, pray to your Father who </span><i style="font-family: papyrus; font-size: 21.3333px;">is</i><span style="font-family: papyrus; font-size: 21.3333px;"> in the secret </span><i style="font-family: papyrus; font-size: 21.3333px;">place;</i><span style="font-family: papyrus; font-size: 21.3333px;"> and your Father who sees in secret will reward you openly. Matthew 6.6</span></div>
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<span style="font-family: "pea annalee"; font-size: 16pt; line-height: 42.6667px;">I think it is a form of bragging about your own spirituality when you tell people how often you pray.</span></div>
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<span style="font-family: "pea annalee";"><span style="font-size: 16pt; line-height: 42.6667px;">It seems to me that a lot of people are quick to admonish others to pray. I'm sorry, but to me this is a pseudo form of spirituality. We are called to be a community of believers. When we admonish each other to pray, it sounds like we are being spiritual. But often i think it covers up the fact that we don't want to deal with the uncomfortable - death or loss of jobs or </span><span style="font-size: 21px; line-height: 42px;">addiction</span><span style="font-size: 16pt; line-height: 42.6667px;"> or alcoholism or children in trouble or serious illness. It is uncomfortable to recognize that we are not able to "fix this" for each other, and since we can't "fix it," it is uncomfortable to have to listen to the pain another person is feeling. So telling that person to pray is a quick and easy "fix." Then we can walk away patting ourselves on the back that we were properly Christian about the whole thing. </span></span></div>
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Kathrynhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03272307621143522274noreply@blogger.com2tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8344474239080799564.post-54640839136271518082012-01-01T14:02:00.000-08:002012-05-08T06:19:55.098-07:00The New Faith<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
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<!--StartFragment-->
<br />
<div style="line-height: 24.0pt; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin: 0in;">
<span style="font-family: 'Pea Picky Panda'; font-size: 18pt; letter-spacing: 1pt;">In [a] sense, very few people today ever trust in god. Very few people
ever voluntarily put themselves in a position where, if their prayers are
unanswered, or if god otherwise fails to act, they will suffer a physical or
financial harm. Sure, they will pray, but it will always be<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><i><u>in addition</u><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>to<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></i>doing
whatever common sense, or science, tells them to do. This renders the outcome
of the prayers completely irrelevant . . .</span><span style="font-family: 'Pea Picky Panda'; font-size: 13.5pt; letter-spacing: 1pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div style="line-height: 24.0pt; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin: 0in;">
<span style="font-family: 'Pea Picky Panda'; font-size: 18pt; letter-spacing: 1pt;"> For example, whenever anybody is sick, they would unlikely be so
foolhardy as to put their money on god<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><i><u>in
lieu</u><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>of</i><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>medical science. They may pray on the
side, as a harmless, cost-free way of doubling down, but no way in hell would a
rational person ignore their surgeon in favor of just prayer. Such rational
people do not “trust in god.” His existence or nonexistence is rendered
irrelevant by the medical advice they follow. </span><span style="font-family: 'Pea Picky Panda'; font-size: 13.5pt; letter-spacing: 1pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin: 0in; mso-line-height-alt: 12.0pt;">
<br /></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin: 0in; mso-line-height-alt: 12.0pt;">
<span style="font-family: 'Pea Picky Panda'; font-size: 18pt; letter-spacing: 1pt;"><br />
<a href="http://www.americanhumanist.org/hnn/details/2011-08-in-god-we-do-not-trust">InGod
We (Do Not) Trust</a></span><span style="font-family: 'Pea Picky Panda'; font-size: 13.5pt; letter-spacing: 1pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: 13.5pt; margin-left: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-top: 0in; mso-line-height-alt: 12.0pt;">
<br /></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin: 0in;">
<span style="font-family: 'Pea Picky Panda'; font-size: 18pt; letter-spacing: 1pt;">An atheist
wrote this, so i suppose it is not surprising that the writer equivocates trust
in God with being mindless. But i do think they have a point about trust and
science. In my opinion, most Christians these days have replaced trust in God
with trust in medical science.</span><span style="font-family: 'Pea Picky Panda'; font-size: 13.5pt; letter-spacing: 1pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: 13.5pt; margin-left: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-top: 0in;">
<br /></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin: 0in;">
<span style="font-family: 'Pea Picky Panda'; font-size: 18pt; letter-spacing: 1pt;">Maybe this
wouldn't be bad if there was something to trust in medical science. The fact
is, however, that most of what passes as “medical science” is a mishmash of politically
driven interest. “Medicine” as it passes today is big business. The fact that
most drug studies are highly biased for the drug company and are tainted at
every step of the process is overlooked by the very people who are suppose to
be protecting the consumers. Properly prescribed medications kill over 100,000
people a year, and conventional medicine kills over 700,000 people a year </span><span style="font-family: 'Abadi MT Condensed Extra Bold'; font-size: 18pt; letter-spacing: 1pt;">–</span><span style="font-family: 'Pea Picky Panda'; font-size: 18pt; letter-spacing: 1pt;"> all legally. But you never hear of this. You DO hear on the<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><b><u>rare</u></b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>occasion that something alternative
creates a problem. That becomes big news. The media will tell you that
alternative treatments are not safe. They are claiming that Steve Jobs
was killed because he used alternative medicine.<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://www.hawkeshealth.net/community/showthread.php?t=8674">A friend
wrote</a> (Mellowsong's entry) that she felt that SJ didn't properly use
either alternative or conventional medicine, and that was the problem. I think
this is an accurate assessment.</span><span style="font-family: 'Pea Picky Panda'; font-size: 13.5pt; letter-spacing: 1pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: 13.5pt; margin-left: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-top: 0in;">
<br /></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin: 0in;">
<span style="font-family: 'Pea Picky Panda'; font-size: 18pt; letter-spacing: 1pt;">My indictment
of the above article written by an atheist is that the writer seems
to put as much blind trust in science as he accuses Christians of having in
God. His faith in science is misplaced, i believe.</span><span style="font-family: 'Pea Picky Panda'; font-size: 13.5pt; letter-spacing: 1pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: 13.5pt; margin-left: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-top: 0in;">
<br /></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin: 0in;">
<span style="font-family: 'Pea Picky Panda'; font-size: 18pt; letter-spacing: 1pt;">I do not think
Christians should be mindless. There are some conventional treatments which i
suppose are needed, especially if the person is not willing to make changes in
diet and environment that will help to fight their disease.<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span> But this means the person in question
needs to be responsible to research treatments and not blindly trust “My doctor
says . . . ” First off, doctors are not some great, infallible prophet. Second,
most of the research in which they trust has been skewed and should not be
trusted. Third, in this day of easy access to alternatives, this is much
easier to do. It is hard, i admit, because there is so much available to
read that you can be overwhelmed by the amount of info. I don't think
this excuses us from being responsible for our own decisions and choosing not
to capitulate to the decision of a doctor. </span><span style="font-family: 'Pea Picky Panda'; font-size: 13.5pt; letter-spacing: 1pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: 13.5pt; margin-left: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-top: 0in;">
<br /></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin: 0in;">
<span style="font-family: 'Pea Picky Panda'; font-size: 18pt; letter-spacing: 1pt;">We have
thousands of years of experience with natural, God-given plants, minerals, and
vitamins in this world which treat illness and heal. But this doesn't make big
money for the doctors and hospitals </span><span style="font-family: 'Abadi MT Condensed Extra Bold'; font-size: 18pt; letter-spacing: 1pt;">–</span><span style="font-family: 'Pea Picky Panda'; font-size: 18pt; letter-spacing: 1pt;"> or the drug
companies. Instead, the scientists play with these natural things until they
can create a synthetic substitute that they can then patent and sell.
While these synthetic substances do seem to work more quickly than
the natural one (and in our culture especially, “quick” relief is valued above
all else), these synthetic drugs have a myriad of problems. First
off, our body does not utilize them as well as the natural substance and as a
result, the synthetic has a host of severe reactions and side
effects.<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span> These can be sudden and
quick (such as anaphylactic shock) or long term (such as
muscle weakness or liver damage).</span><span style="font-family: 'Pea Picky Panda'; font-size: 13.5pt; letter-spacing: 1pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: 13.5pt; margin-left: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-top: 0in;">
<br /></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin: 0in;">
<span style="font-family: 'Pea Picky Panda'; font-size: 18pt; letter-spacing: 1pt;">One example:
There is evidence that calcium fluoride can help build strong teeth </span><span style="font-family: 'Abadi MT Condensed Extra Bold'; font-size: 18pt; letter-spacing: 1pt;">–</span><span style="font-family: 'Pea Picky Panda'; font-size: 18pt; letter-spacing: 1pt;"> if taken in very limited doses. The industry making fertilizer (it was
created in other manufacturing processes as well) created a huge surplus of
very toxic sodium fluoride or other related fluorides. This type of fluoride is
found nowhere in nature. But the theory (studies to back this were never
completed because the results were so contrary to the theory) was that if
calcium fluoride would be good, sodium fluoride would be as well. The
industries could save huge amounts of money by selling this substance to the
water districts and thus not have to deal with this very toxic chemical waste.
However </span><span style="font-family: 'Abadi MT Condensed Extra Bold'; font-size: 18pt; letter-spacing: 1pt;">–</span><span style="font-family: 'Pea Picky Panda'; font-size: 18pt; letter-spacing: 1pt;"> it is still a chemical waste and if the
water districts spill this stuff while they are adding it to the water, a
Hazmat team has to be called in to handle the disposal of it. We want this in
our water? And yet, the majority of Americans believe it when they are told
that fluoride is healthy for us.</span><span style="font-family: 'Pea Picky Panda'; font-size: 13.5pt; letter-spacing: 1pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: 13.5pt; margin-left: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-top: 0in;">
<br /></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin: 0in;">
<span style="font-family: 'Pea Picky Panda'; font-size: 18pt; letter-spacing: 1pt;">The American
Medical Association was created with the specific goal to weed out all
competition to their interests.<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>
Heroic medicine was already in place at that time, but the goals of the AMA
were to promote it over any other system. (Don't bother with Wikipedia for the
definition of “Heroic medicine.” Their answer is much too incomplete. You could
try this<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://health.web-indexes.com/alternative/Heroic-Medicine.html">Healthwebsite</a>.)
Supposedly, the days of heroic medicine - doing much damage to the
patient in the meantime - are past, but in my mind much of conventional
medicine </span><span style="font-family: 'Abadi MT Condensed Extra Bold'; font-size: 18pt; letter-spacing: 1pt;">–</span><span style="font-family: 'Pea Picky Panda'; font-size: 18pt; letter-spacing: 1pt;"> especially cancer treatments </span><span style="font-family: 'Abadi MT Condensed Extra Bold'; font-size: 18pt; letter-spacing: 1pt;">–</span><span style="font-family: 'Pea Picky Panda'; font-size: 18pt; letter-spacing: 1pt;"> are nothing but an updated version of heroic medicine.</span><span style="font-family: 'Pea Picky Panda'; font-size: 13.5pt; letter-spacing: 1pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: 13.5pt; margin-left: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-top: 0in;">
<br /></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin: 0in;">
<span style="font-family: 'Pea Picky Panda'; font-size: 18pt; letter-spacing: 1pt;">So, my big
question is why on earth would Christians blindly follow the advice of
conventional medical doctors </span><span style="font-family: 'Abadi MT Condensed Extra Bold'; font-size: 18pt; letter-spacing: 1pt;">–</span><span style="font-family: 'Pea Picky Panda'; font-size: 18pt; letter-spacing: 1pt;"> whose track
record in treating patients is really pathetic </span><span style="font-family: 'Abadi MT Condensed Extra Bold'; font-size: 18pt; letter-spacing: 1pt;">–</span><span style="font-family: 'Pea Picky Panda'; font-size: 18pt; letter-spacing: 1pt;"> instead of
researching all possibilities? I strongly believe that nearly all illness we
see these days is directly a result of the processed foods people eat, our
polluted water and environment, the chemicals used in our homes and workplaces,
and the medications so easily taken by people without much thought. It is time
to start living as our creator designed us to live, with the good food and
water provided, rather than trusting an industry to feed us or treat disease.</span><span style="font-family: 'Pea Picky Panda'; font-size: 13.5pt; letter-spacing: 1pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin: 0in;">
<br /></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin: 0in;">
<span style="font-family: 'Pea Picky Panda'; font-size: 18pt; letter-spacing: 1pt;">I think it
strange that the Church (in early days it would have been the Catholic Church
as there was no other) chose to fear natural medicine and healing and claim it
"witchcraft" and in time has instead chosen to advocate current
allopathic, heroic medicine. </span><span style="font-family: 'Pea Picky Panda'; font-size: 13.5pt; letter-spacing: 1pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: 13.5pt; margin-left: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-top: 0in;">
<br /></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin: 0in;">
<span style="font-family: 'Pea Picky Panda'; font-size: 18pt; letter-spacing: 1pt;">This is near
and dear to my heart right now as i personally know of three people who are
placing their lives in the hands of these medical folks. It is hard for me to
bear.</span><span style="font-family: 'Pea Picky Panda'; font-size: 13.5pt; letter-spacing: 1pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
<!--EndFragment--></blockquote>
</div>Kathrynhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03272307621143522274noreply@blogger.com2tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8344474239080799564.post-69920206622578984122011-02-26T09:50:00.000-08:002011-02-26T11:07:28.428-08:00Title<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on"><span style="font-size: large;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">By that i mean, I looked for love.</span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: large;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;"><br />
</span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: large;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">Recently i wrote of the death of my grandmother (on my main blog, <a href="http://kateekat.blogspot.com/2011/02/weekend-post.html">This 'n That From on the Mountain</a>). I didn't write in great detail because i didn't want to be offensive, but i was honestly perplexed at much of what the family wrote. In my experience, my grandmother did not have much "unconditional love." She disapproved of the religion, actions, and choices of many of her family, and withheld approval and love arbitrarily. She could be very harsh and judgmental. </span></span><br />
<br />
<span style="font-size: large;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">So many of the things i heard said of her confused me. </span></span><br />
<br />
<span style="font-size: large;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">But i was told that a cousin - who lived near her while growing up - spoke of that to my sister. She said that yes, our grandmother was harsh and difficult. But at home when their family spoke of it the response was, "Yes, Grandma is that way. But that is how she is and we love her." They accepted her, and loving her was a fact, not conditional on behaviors.</span></span><br />
<br />
<span style="font-size: large;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">Let me say that i did not experience my grandmother as harsh when i was a child. She was warm and loving. We lived a long way from her from the time i was 8 years old, and when we visited, she made a big to-do about my sisters and myself. It was not until i was a young adult and made choices of which she disapproved (i did not go to college right out of high school) that i experienced the judgement and harshness. I was completely unprepared for her way of dealing with me and to a degree, heartbroken that she would be so hard. </span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: large;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;"><br />
</span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: large;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">But i also did not live anywhere near her. I had not lived in a day's driving distance since i was 8 years old, and i was never again to live in that part of the country. So i saw her rarely, and after that visit i wasn't anxious to go back again. </span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: large;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;"><br />
</span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: large;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">I wonder if it would have been different had my family stayed in the South instead of moving 2,000 miles away. I'm not sure it would have, because saying, "That is how she is. We love her anyway" was not the way my family did things. Instead of saying, "that is how" someone else sees and deals with the world, my mother would spend hours agonizing over "what did i do?" and "why would someone respond to/treat me in such a manner?"</span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: large;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;"><br />
</span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: large;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">As an adult, i can see the limitations of this view. While it taught me a degree of responsibility and saying, "What was my part in this?" "Am i responsible for what just occurred?" it was not a balanced perspective. A balanced perspective would have included something like, "Is that how this person responds to the world? Did i initiate it, or is it something innate within them?" My mother's viewpoint blamed herself (or me, or my sisters) for the behavior of others. This created more pain in relationships than i think needs to be there, than there would be if our views had been a bit more balanced.</span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: large;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;"><br />
</span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: large;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">Still, i think part of the reason my cousins were able to carve out some relationship with our grandmother thru the years is because they were <i>there</i>. It is hard to build a relationship with someone when you are not present to do that.</span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: large;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;"><br />
</span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: large;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">When someone has harmed me, i'm not sure it is a matter of forgiveness (tho that comes into it, of course) but that i never really trust them again. I tend to back off.</span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: large;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;"><br />
</span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: large;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">For the past couple of weeks, the scripture readings have been on the Sermon on the Mount. Last week Tim was talking about love, and how that we are told to do so - we don't have the option of picking and choosing. I heard all of that, even tho i was trying to subdue an almost-4-year-old thru the sermon. </span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: large;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;"><br />
</span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: large;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">And i was convicted. I was holding my grandmother accountable - i was judging her for not having "unconditional love." But the fact is, neither did i. I essentially said that my love was conditional on her not hurting me or not being harsh. </span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: large;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;"><br />
</span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: large;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">Now, that is natural, but it is not Christian. Jesus told us to love our enemies and to do good to those who hate us. THAT is what makes Christianity powerful. Tim spoke of Christianity being watered down, but largely i think it is watered down because we do not have that love. As Christians, many of us have fallen into the cultural trap of trying to shield ourselves from hurt or pain. But we are not called to do that, we are called to trust (God) and to love.</span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: large;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">I have long heard that "love is an action word" not just a feeling. Sometimes it is hard for me to know how that is to play out. But i know i'm a long way from that. I don't know how much "action" i can take/do, but i can do something. </span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: large;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">I have been very aware that i am very lacking in love for others (and tend to be judgmental) and have been praying, praying, praying for more love. I think it is time to stop praying and start doing. (This reminds me of an anecdote in a book, i think was <u><i>Christy</i></u> by Catherine Marshall. An old lady spoke of praying to forgive someone for a wrong they had done her. Said she prayed for this for years until she finally decided simply to forgive. Then she did.)</span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: large;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">There are a couple of difficult folks in my life (relatives). I've had a distant relationship with them and haven't known how to change that. But i think simply reaching out is one key. I'll probably try to send letters/cards, with no expectation of recriprocation. In the past, if i reached out 3 or 4 times and got no response, i stopped. I think it is time to let go of my ego, and simply work at loving, regardless of the outcome. I think that even with folks who are not difficult for me, i need to do more to let them know i love them. </span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: large;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">This is not to say that i'm not still struggling with doubt/faith, and all the rest. Sometimes the way i am and feel in church is simply cognitive dissonance. Wednesdays i often attend an Anglican mass at noon. This week, the simultaneous feelings of doubting whether there is a God and simply wanting to serve him was bizarre. It isn't even ambivalent (which i tend to see as a neutral feeling). It is simply weird. But i HAVE decided that even if it is all bunk, the whole of Christianity is a myth, i desire to live a life that reflects the teachings and love of Christ. It is my desire to live a life that reflects Christ as much as i am able.</span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: large;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">I failed my grandmother. That is gone, past, not to be undone now. But i can learn from it and change the way i respond to people in the future. </span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: large;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">I am very much touched by this post at <a href="http://blog.beliefnet.com/omeoflittlefaith/2011/02/conversions-from-senior-pastor.html" style="color: white;">O Me of Little Faith</a>. This is the type of Christian i want to be, not what our culture perceives Christianity to be.</span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">46</span></span></div>Kathrynhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03272307621143522274noreply@blogger.com3tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8344474239080799564.post-25149617474091184712011-02-06T08:23:00.000-08:002011-02-06T08:23:41.095-08:00Trust<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on"><span style="font-size: small;"><span><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">Duane and i both like SciFi & some fantasy tv/movies.</span></span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: small;"><span><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;"> I've not watched <i>Smallville</i> from the beginning. Shoot, i didn't even have a tv when that program began. Essentially, i missed the high school years of the program.</span></span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: small;"><span><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">This is the last season for the program to run. We were watching an episode last night.</span></span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: small;"><span><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">Background: Chloe, a friend of Clark's and many of the other characters, disappeared a while back without giving her friends any explanation. In this episode, she returns but her actions are confusing and it looks as if she is trying to harm her friends. Her actions become more clear as the show progresses, but each of the friends has to make a decision whether or not they will trust her. Clark really struggles with this.</span></span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: small;"><span><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">I find this ironic (and the writers probably wrote it with this intention) because throughout the history of the program Clark has often done things without explanation to his friends, expecting them to trust him. </span></span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: small;"><span><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">At the end of the program, Clark, realizing how much trust he has required from his friends over time, questions Chloe. He asks how she was able to place so much trust in him. (<i>My recap of this here may not be exact, it went by quickly.</i>) At times Clark lied to his friends, believing they were safer not to know the truth in some cases. Chloe often knew that Clark was lying. He questions how she could trust him regardless, and her response was that she was often able to see thru the lies, knowing he cared for her (and others) and was trying to protect them.</span></span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: small;"><span><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">She finishes by saying, "That is the essence of trust in a person, isn't it, that you don't require them to give an explanation?"</span></span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: small;"><span><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">I've long been meaning to write about the last book in the Harry Potter series. I recently re-read them. (I know a lot of Christian folks reject these books due to their subject matter. I have a lot to say on this, but that's a post for another day.)</span></span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: small;"><span><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">Thru the books, one of Harry's mentors is Professor Dumbledore. At times this mentor has asked things of Harry without explanation. In one of the seven books, Harry has essentially no contact with his mentor, and when he tries to question him at times, Dumbledore ignores the attempt. At the end of that book he explains to Harry that he felt that keeping a distance would protect Harry. But of course, that raised a lot of resentment in Harry from the misunderstanding (of why this mentor would do such a thing). </span></span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: small;"><span><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">In the final book, after learning more of his mentor, the info Harry gleans seems to be really contradictory and some of the choices the mentor has made seems to hold little regard for Harry's own life, Harry himself has to make a decision.</span></span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: small;"><span><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">Harry really wrestles with the situation. And ultimately, he decides to follow the path he is on, the path set before him by his mentor, even tho much of it does not make sense to him.</span></span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: small;"><span><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">Of course, i have much more to say on this, but i'm out of time for now.</span></span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: small;"><span><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">Let's just say that my course is to explore this further. Sara's faith makes much more sense to me now, because she trusts that God is good and faithful, even if she doesn't have an explanation for all that has happened to her. </span></span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: x-small;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">45</span></span></div>Kathrynhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03272307621143522274noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8344474239080799564.post-1585521519087304552011-01-03T00:37:00.000-08:002011-01-03T00:37:48.382-08:00Happy New Year<span style="font-size: medium;"><span><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">I've been meaning to write for some time now, but it seems to me that marshaling my thoughts just doesn't come that easily. </span></span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">First off, i want to share two posts, both by Sara Frankl. <i><a href="http://gitzengirl.blogspot.com/2010/12/believe.html">Believe</a></i>. She does. This woman has incredible faith. She places her life in God's hands each and every minute of the day. She begins speaking of the parable in Matthew 20 about the workers who were all paid the same no matter how many hours they labored. This is a parable that Duane and i have often discussed.</span></span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">But what really hit me most in this post by Sara is where she says, "</span></span></span><span style="font-size: large;"><em>I'll have what she's having, please.</em></span><span style="font-size: medium;"><span><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">" If anyone could be discontented, it is Sara. But Sara spends her time reminding herself (thru her moment by moment pain) that she doesn't dictate to God and that God is good, <i>all the time</i>. As always, i stand in awe of her faith. Because i frequently want to say, "I'll have what she's having, please." (She writes this much more clearly than i'm saying here.)</span></span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">The second, also by Sara, is <a href="http://gitzengirl.blogspot.com/2010/12/praise.html"><i>Praise</i></a>. Frankly, i struggle with the idea that God is good, all the time. </span></span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">My word for 2011 is <i>Acceptance</i>. I'm making some headway with this. I re-read some posts from This 'n That from on the Mountain from December 2009. I was really struggling with bitterness and resentment. I didn't say a lot about it, but enough that i remember how consumed i was with bitterness. I had been so sure that if we just were patient enough, God would give us our deepest desire of having a family.</span></span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">This year was not like that, i was not consumed with bitterness. I don't think it will ever be easy for me to think, "Our Kaylee would be _ years old now." I don't think i will ever have an easy time hearing of all the new babies due for the coming year. (Three i'm aware of so far.) This year was a bit more peace about this. It may have helped that we did have children as part of the holiday (Nina's kids). I'm <b>thankful</b> that that grip of harsh, hateful bitterness has relaxed. </span></span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">Another thing that may change this year is that we are likely to become regular attenders at the Lutheran (Spirit of Peace) church. This surprises me a bit as i didn't want to settle into one church. But we feel most at home there, i think. Although, there is some possibility that this SoP church might join in with a Presbyterian church in the area. That would be different. </span></span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">This part may be a bit controversial. I have a very hard time with many Christian phrases. One that is being used currently by several bloggers i read is, "Less of me, more of Him," (or is it "More of Him, less of me"?). I think that there are some preconceptions in my background that make me respond negatively to this idea.</span></span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">There is a Doctor Who episode where a nasty villain called The Master turned all the people on Earth into replicas of himself. It is hard for me to see that when Christians talk about "less of me" that they are not trying to do something similar, only, of course Jesus being the one replicated. It feels evil to me.</span></span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">The image i have of us having "less of self, more of Christ" is like having a big, big white puzzle, with every piece identical. </span></span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">Again. I see this as evil.</span></span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">I believe that it is Satan's doing that we feel we cannot have personality or individuality and reflect Jesus well. (Now, i recognize that the folks who use this phrase are almost certainly not having the idea that we should be identical.) We are created so uniquely and so differently. I cannot believe that God desires us to wash away all individuality in order to be a Christian. Rather, i believe that God would use us uniquely, our individuality, our gifts.</span></span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">It may very well be that some of us can reach other folks better with our flaws and foibles than a perfect Jesus replica would be able to. </span></span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">In contrast to that perfectly white puzzle with each piece identical to all the others, i see God's creation - including his children - as a riot of colors, textures, sizes, and gifts. To be more like Christ, to me, is to become more of the individual person he created me to be. I do not desire to be more selfish, of course, but "less of me" is a concept that is difficult to grasp. What part of myself am i suppose to discard?</span></span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">While i am perfectly aware that most Christians do not have my conception of this phrase, it is often implied in churches. </span></span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">The truth, i believe, is balanced somewhere between my extreme view of this phrase, and the view of a radically right-wing church. </span></span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">It disturbs me that i wonder if i'm able to reject this idea and still be a Christian. Am i denying Jesus in wanting to retain my individuality?</span></span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: x-small;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">44</span></span>Kathrynhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03272307621143522274noreply@blogger.com1tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8344474239080799564.post-40979312218069487092010-11-27T13:35:00.000-08:002010-11-27T13:35:18.629-08:00Watering<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">This is not a new or unique idea. What is watered grows, what doesn't get water eventually dies.</span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">I'm a very challenged gardener. I frequently forget to water. I have a number of dead plants in my kitchen, currently, and about 4 that are doing very well. I also have an ivy plant in the bathroom that is doing quite well. I water it twice a week when i take a shower. </span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">In my faith, my belief in God, i frequently have doubts. A few months ago i probably would have said, "struggle with doubt," but the truth is, i have begun to embrace the doubt. Tho i am sure there are Christians who do not doubt, it is hard for me to imagine a thinking person NOT having doubts. The world is just so contradictory. There are just too many questions. Many of the "promises" that Christians claim are taken out of context or do not come true. How can i not doubt the nature of a God that says so many of the weird and bizarre things in the Old Testament. Even many of the things Jesus said are difficult to grasp. </span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">I read a number of different blogs, many of which are Christian or written by folks who are Christian. A few are about struggling with, accepting, or fighting doubts. One of these is <a href="http://blog.beliefnet.com/omeoflittlefaith/">O Me of Little Faith</a>. There is also a book by the same title. I've spoken of it before. I would like to write about it more extensively, but haven't gotten around to doing so. </span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">Now, i know in the eyes of some folks, including our former pastor, doubt would usher me straight into hell. I don't believe that. But this is a discussion for another time.</span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">The fact is, i have faith, such as it is. It doesn't look like the faith of an Evangelical or Fundamental Christian. Those particular branches of Christianity espouse things and do things that make me very uncomfortable. But i have faith all the same. It gives me some comfort. It is not the type of faith that will blow away all doubt. I think my faith will have to co-exist with doubt indefinitely. </span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">However, it recently occurred to me that i can choose my focus. If i spend too much time at blogs that espouse doubt, then that is where my thoughts will be. Blogs that embrace doubt are not harmful, they can (for me) be very helpful. But anything that dwells too much on seeking out more doubt, more negativity, will have too much effect on me in a negative manner. There is lots of research literature in psychology stating what a strong effect our minds, thoughts, and beliefs have on our physical and mental well being. </span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">(BTW, if i am already reading your blog, i'm not talking about dropping it! I'm only speaking of not further seeking that which will make me doubt, scientific data, etc.)</span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">The fact is, none of us know. That is where faith comes in. People can claim to know, but they are not able to provide any kind of proof that would stand up in scientific testing. People can claim an experience, but that is not something reproducible, nor is it something that anyone else can experience with them. </span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">I find, for me, that having some kind of faith, even if it also embraces and accepts doubt, is comforting. Certainly there are many scriptures in the Bible that encourage living in a way that will bring peace: <i>Love your neighbor, being a peacemaker, being meek, pure of heart, or merciful.</i> It seems to be these are only negatives in the way we sometimes translate (or preach about). I think that living as a follower of Jesus is the way to have a life that is more about peace and caring about others and being less self-involved. </span></span><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;"><i>Luke 12:34 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also. </i>(Although, i recognize that if i lived in a place that persecuted Christians my faith would either have to grow to something more and become stronger, or die.)</span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">Self-involvement is natural, of course, but when taken to an extreme it seems to be the root of most mental illness. </span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">Too much of the Bible is incomprehensible, too. Except it does seem that Jesus is telling us that the fairness by which we measure is not very important to God. Look at the parable of the workers in the vineyard (<i>Matthew 20</i>). All i can do with something like this is to trust that the God who is so beyond me is a God who will care, even when things seem unfair to me.</span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">When i focus too much on things that encourage severe doubt (which seems to go hand in hand with unhappiness for me), it does make sense to me to remember: </span></span><br />
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<i><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">1 Corinthians 1:25 For the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men.</span></span></i><br />
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<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">And, </span></span><i><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">Proverbs 3:5-7 Trust in the Lord with all your heart, and do not lean on your own understanding. In all your ways acknowledge him,and he will make straight your paths. Be not wise in your own eyes; fear the Lord, and turn away from evil.</span></span></i><br />
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<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">While i am not stupid, i am not terribly smart, either. I think accepting that there is much i don't understand, and choosing not to believe my own brain is the ultimate to make decisions and understand everything leaves me the room to believe and trust in God, even if he is incomprehensible to me. I've a feeling that all my own "wisdom" is pretty foolish.<br />
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<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">There are so many things in our culture, our churches, our nation, our world, our universe, which make little sense to me. Trying to make sense of them makes it worse! It is comforting to me to believe that even if God seems unfair, unjust, and just simply weird, a God who created us and sent his son to be our bridge to him probably is incomprehensible. That is where my faith comes in. I <i>choose</i> to believe that i can't understand because it is beyond me and that all the unfairness in our world will make sense in the next, if it is even important enough to think of there. And if i'm wrong (about the next world), well, i won't know, will i? Or, i'll deal with that when i have to.</span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">For me, it doesn't hurt to focus on these verses:</span></span><br />
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<i><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">Philippians 4:8 Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is commendable, if there is any excellence, if there is anything worthy of praise, think about these things.</span></span></i><br />
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<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">I can choose which plant to water, doubt or faith. I can choose to focus on positive rather than negative. I've a feeling that when i water one, the other is getting some of that water, too. But i think i want to focus on watering faith as much as possible, and accept that doubt grows there as well. But i don't want to focus on what would make the doubt grow to the point it chokes out the faith i have. </span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">(All these scriptures make it sound like i'm quite the Bible scholar, but it isn't true. I don't actually do a lot of Bible reading, most of these i did a Google search, tho i did have the basics in my head to know what to search for.)</span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">43 </span></span><br />
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</span></span>Kathrynhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03272307621143522274noreply@blogger.com3tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8344474239080799564.post-63029218440815282702010-11-11T00:45:00.000-08:002010-11-11T00:45:42.095-08:00Words<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">I've had this page open for forever. A month or more. I was trying to write about my current struggle, but the words just were not coming. It is saved, perhaps i will use it at a later date.</span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">Let me just say, i'm really having trouble with the concept of God in our world. I'm coming to more strongly believe that "fairness" - at least the way as it is conceived by humans - is entirely a human construct not one from God. At least, that is how it looks. I think that our construct of "fair" is entirely foreign to God and not part of his nature at all.</span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">Now, somehow i do think it is hardwired in us to be "fair" because even small children grasp and hold the idea. If you give a couple of kids 4 years old each a piece of pie, but one piece is noticeably bigger, tell me that the one <i>won't</i> yell, "That's not FAIR!" Probably even younger than 4.</span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">Yet, over and over i see in the Bible that God does what he will, regardless of our concept of "fair."</span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">That's all i've got to say about it right now.</span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">_____________________________</span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">We were at "the other" Lutheran Church this weekend. We saw another couple from our original church, E and S, but i knew that they had not been attending there for a long, long time. More than a year. </span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">These folks are actually neighbors of ours, about 3 houses away, but i never see them outside so i've never really approached them. Their son T (who is about 15-16) walks thru the neighborhood and says hello to us when we are out. </span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">What i learned was this: They went thru a family crisis a couple of years ago. They weren't able to attend for a while because of this and no one from the church ever contacted them. No one. Not once. </span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">S and E were very hurt. I feel very badly for them. I also feel responsible to some degree of not trying to make more of an effort, although they don't see it that way. We had only been attending for a short while when they stopped coming. </span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">But more. T was going thru catechism with Pastor G. G preached from the pulpit at least once "that you cannot be a Christian AND a vegetarian." Yep, he said that. I took him to task for it. I was quite upset with this rigid view. Of course, it is HIS view, but when he preaches he never says, "In my opinion . . . " He preaches as if what he was saying (his opinion) is gospel. </span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">However, it has further consequences than my being upset. The SON had just become vegetarian and heard G say this. Evidently they discussed it and T chose not to continue with catechism and refused to attend there any longer. His mama says he has gotten into paganism.</span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">Now, i do believe that if that is where he wanted to go, if he was drawn to paganism, he probably would have ended up there. But if nothing else, G gave him a push. </span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">And more, another couple that attended erratically, T and K, had issues as well. I guess they were having some marital problems and T was seeking counsel from G. At some point G told T that his marriage was over and he needed to divorce K. K was quite put out with G over this and they stopped attending much at all. (BTW, G is not the first pastor that i've heard of saying something like this. It may even be good advice on a rare occasion, but i don't believe a pastor should ever be pushing a congregant in this direction!)</span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">From my understanding, this was several years ago. They are still married. K is having some fairly severe medical problems. I think they moved away. What is hard for me to grasp is that they attended at all ever again! If G had told Duane something like that, you can be sure i would never step foot in the church again.</span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">And, i've a confession. In both of these cases, i rather stood in judgment of these folks who rarely attended church. I had no business doing this, and i knew it. But i know that i still felt a bit smug and superior knowing i was in church weekly when they "couldn't be bothered" to make it.</span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">I won't say this in my defense, for there is no excuse, but G encouraged such thought. He often preached in church that "If we really loved the Lord . . . " the church would be filled, or we would be in those pews every week, or some such thing. He frequently preached things that would encourage the congregation to feel superior to other folks, whether other members or other churches. </span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">This disturbed me a lot. </span></span><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">I didn't like it when he preached this. I disagreed with it. I saw it as manipulative. It even made me feel guilty and (at that time anyway) we were there every week. Why was i feeling condemned for something of which i was not guilty? It was because of the manipulation. It was when he began preaching such things that i began to be quite uncomfortable with that church. (I took this up with G once, too. About the manipulation and use of guilt. He budged not at all on this issue. His take was that if someone feels guilty about something of which he preaches, then the arrow hit the mark and they ARE guilty and need to repent. Um, not so much, thank you. I am NOT guilty on this point.)</span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">This does not excuse my attitude at all. I repent and ask forgiveness because even as i was doing this i knew it was wrong. But (not "but" about my behavior, i am responsible), it wasn't clear to me that even tho i disagreed with G on this, my thought processes were lining up with his when i felt self righteous on issues of which i had no right to feel superior. Speaking with these folks made it clear to me that i'd been offensively smug (privately, i never shared this even with Duane) when it was not justified and wrong for me to do so. </span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">I'm coming more and more to see how dangerous G's church has become. And i continue to be sad about it, but i am healing. Time and distance does help heal. </span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">41 </span></span>Kathrynhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03272307621143522274noreply@blogger.com2tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8344474239080799564.post-63308446192685851722010-09-09T00:10:00.002-07:002012-04-11T11:05:14.082-07:00What is love?<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on"><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: 'comic sans ms', sans-serif;">The news is full of Christians doing things i find obnoxious. Some pastor in Florida is advocating burning of the Koran. Sigh. </span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: 'comic sans ms', sans-serif;">It does often seem to me that some Christians feel that hate is justified when they are dealing with people who somehow threaten their faith, or that threaten the "purity" of the Church, or something. It bothers me a great deal, especially as we all folks carrying the name "Christian" tend to be tarred with the same brush. </span></span><br />
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<span style="color: white; font-family: 'comic sans ms', sans-serif; font-size: medium;">(This portion of this post has been removed. I wasn't sensitive to the conversation with a family member in writing it and it has been sent into the ether.)</span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: 'comic sans ms', sans-serif;">Lord, please let me love more. Please give me the love i need to share. Please help me to know how to share love & not let it be simply something within. Please help me to find ways to let the ones i love know that i care, & help me to love them more.</span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: 'comic sans ms', sans-serif;">40</span></span></div>Kathrynhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03272307621143522274noreply@blogger.com3tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8344474239080799564.post-22994036278558959422010-08-29T12:16:00.000-07:002010-08-29T12:16:14.634-07:00Thoughts on a Sunday Morning<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">Did you know that if you click on your own profile, whatever location you listed for yourself is a link. If you click on that link, it will tell you the other people who blog from your area. Now, maybe not something you want to do if your location is "Southern California," but in a small place like Big Bear (& permutations such as "Big Bear Lake" & "Big Bear City") there are only about 100 blogs listed. So, curious, i visited them. (Tho i've just discovered that if you spell out "California" you find a different listing, meaning more.)</span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;"> </span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">I found a couple that i'd like to follow. But what surprised me more is that there are so many that have one post or 4 or 10 & then nothing. And quite a few who have none at all! A lot of the "bloggers" are real estate agents. And one really surprising fellow with about 8 different profiles has 10-25 different blogs at each profile. And most of those blogs had ONE post! I guess rather than having continunity in one blog, he feels each post deserves a blog of its own. </span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">I guess some folks start a blog & then discover that it isn't their thing. Duane started a blog (<a href="http://croggled.blogspot.com/">Croggled</a>) long before i even knew what a blog was. He has a total of four posts, one that i wrote.</span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">My point? Oh, just some thoughts when i realized it has been a long time since last i posted. </span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">Two weekends ago, when my ILs were here, we went to the Catholic Church. It turned out that it was the day in their liturgical calendar that celebrates the "Assumption of Mary." Say what? All the hymns were ones celebrating Mary. My Catholic ILs & my Catholic-raised husband were not aware of this church doctrine. It states that Mary died, was buried, was raised again, & was taken up directly into heaven. AND it became official church canon in 1950. SAY WHAT? ! ! ! </span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">So, when we got home i did some research into the "Mariology" of the Catholic church. The belief that was finally canonized in 1950 had been part of church tradition since the 3rd or 4th century. However, folks, non-traditional church info - meaning factual rather than an evolving trend - began in the first century, not long after Jesus' death & resurrection. Frankly, after listening to the songs & attribution to Mary & checking the church doctrine, the Catholic church - or at least the ones that choose to worship this way - are in great danger of putting Mary on equal footing, or even higher, than Jesus. </span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">Duane tells me that in catechism, he was taught that Mary is the only person ever born without sin. It was about that point that Duane rejected Catholic tradition, although he continued to attend that church for many years.</span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">Frankly, i've a lot to say that is positive about the Catholic church. My friend Jessica (<a href="http://jessicareynoldsshaverrenshaw.blogspot.com/">His Scribe</a>) is doing a series (rather off & on) about our "reconcilable differences" with the Catholic church, looking at the ways we are similar. But i'm rather taken aback by this Mariology. Too much for me.</span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">I do believe that it is important for us as Christians to love others - INCLUDING CHRISTIANS! So often it seems that Christianity is so very divisive instead of presenting to loving image of Jesus i believe we are intended to reflect. I've long thought of Christianity as being a mirror. We don't have an image in & of ourselves, but we can reflect the glory of God. In doing so we can shine a light into dark places. But it seems that mirror has been shattered & we are reflecting bits of God's glory, but not a true image. I can't pick up one shard & say, "This is what it is like to reflect God's glory. It takes the full mirror to reflect the full glory. Perhaps the day is coming when God will repair that mirror.</span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">That was one of my problems with our former Lutheran church. The pastor was so sure that his church & only his church had the full mirror & none of the others had any of it. They were all in "error." But i think that God is so much more than we can comprehend that we are ALL in error in some way or another. So we need to treat one another with kindness & love, & recognize weakness & not tear down those that struggle. I know we've had the discussion about the Catholic church before. I do think that perhaps it is too easy to get caught up in Catholic doctrine, dogma, tradition, & theology & lose the way to Christ. BUT i think that is a possibility in ALL churches. We tend to get caught in doctrine, dogma, tradition, & theology. Granted, some more than others, but those trappings tend to overshadow the simple message of Christ crucified & risen, the message that God sent his Son to be our bridge. </span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">Too many people, in the church & out of it, tend to want to skip the bridge & see if they can't jump the gulf themselves. Some churches tend to water down the message of Christ by placing a lot of emphasis on rules & regulations, making us think that we can earn our own way. But that is not the message that Jesus brought & lived out. </span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">Ok, much can be said on that, but i'm done. Hopefully i made my point.</span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">We attended the "other" Lutheran church last week. We like it. It is warm & friendly. But we are not at the point of wanting to join a church, even on a regular basis.</span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">I don't handle "authority" or politics well. When i worked hospital, i found them to be very political. I tried to make sure that i worked mostly when administration & management was NOT on premises (evening shifts). I liked to do my job & do it well without being sucked into the political management bull that often got in the way of doing a good job. I did my best when i worked 3 different hospitals part-time. I was able to go & work with folks i liked doing work i liked. I heard their stories & complaints. When i left at the end of the shift my work was done or passed on to the next shift (very good for a procrastinator like myself). I also got to leave the office politics behind. Walk away. Because it didn't effect me. The worst mistake i ever made was to go full-time at one hospital. Because then i was in the same mire day after day & it DID effect me. </span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">I'm feeling the same way about joining a church at this time. People are frequently wishing us luck or blessings in "finding a home," but at this point that is NOT what we are looking for. I have too much difficulty with too many of the doctrines in the churches. If we visit on a weekend & they preach the Gospel, then i'm not involved in their doctrine or politics. Now, i know that this sounds like i'm copping out, but it is simply where i am at the moment. We seek fellowship with other believers & to worship in a church that preaches the Gospel. But i do NOT want to get involved in doctrine/politics. If we find a church that needs help on an issue, we will try to help. If we can join in an ecumenical group that is trying to _____________ (feed the hungry, house the homeless, provide) we will likely try to help. It is not that we are not willing to work, but that we are not willing to align with a particular doctrine at this point. </span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">Truth is too, we've not made many friends here with whom to socialize. We may see folks in a restaurant or at the store & chat with them, but that is not, to me, a satisfying relationship. I'm hoping that by going to several different churches we can make some friends that cut across denominational ties. Maybe that is why i'm "seeking" Big Bear bloggers, too. :)</span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">Have a blessed Sunday. </span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">39 </span></span>Kathrynhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03272307621143522274noreply@blogger.com4tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8344474239080799564.post-3699562568939561602010-08-13T11:32:00.000-07:002010-08-13T11:32:10.200-07:00Some Thoughts<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">This has been rather a difficult week & i never responded to the comments on my last post. I so appreciate comments. I try to respond to them, but don't always manage.</span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">For Mr. Geezer, commenting on the Catholic church, i appreciate your point of view. I understand what you are saying. It is, largely, the view my own mother had of that church.</span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">However, God uses all things to draw folks to him. In my blog reading i've come across several bloggers of the the Roman Catholic flavor, & the ones i choose to follow have terrific faith. In fact, quite frankly, i've much to learn from them. The depths of their faith is sometimes astounding to me. My own husband (not a blogger, he's got 4 total posts at his blog, i wrote one) is Catholic-raised & has terrific faith. When he ran up against some of these extra-biblical doctrines, he questioned the teacher. When he was given inadequate answers, he rejected the doctrines but continued his faith.</span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">I very much appreciate your point: </span></span><br />
<blockquote>Catholics need to be evangelized. They need to hear the true Gospel. They need to hear that they are not made right before God by being in a church, or by being baptized, but by receiving Christ . . . </blockquote><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">However, i believe this to be true for ALL churches. Not just Catholics fall into this trap that believing that "being good" or following doctrine, laws, rules or other ordinances set by a church will "save" them. That said, i do believe that God calls his people & that God can use all translations of the Bible to do so. Yes, some translations can have certain slants we may not agree with, but God can still use it. His Word does not return void. </span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">Also, not just Catholics fall into the problem of having doctrine that is unscriptural. Just about every church out there tends to put more emphasis on one point of scripture over another one. Sometimes it is a mild diversion, sometimes it is a dangerous one. </span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">We have, i believe, much to thank the Catholic church for. From the beginning of Christianity we had only the Eastern Orthodox & Roman Catholic churches. The Catholic church maintained our scriptures & teachings for 1500 years. Yes, much was done in the name of the church that was unholy, to say the least, & their doctrine took a turn that most Protestants do not accept. But the scripture was still there, waiting for us to return to it & study what was said. And it was there because of the Catholic church maintaining it thru the years. </span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">I don't draw lines anymore saying "This church is 'Christian' & this church is not." I try to learn from the teaching. Everyone needs to be "evangelized" even if they grew up in a Baptist church. It is too easy to miss God's "narrow path" even if we have found some other narrow path that seems right.</span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">Amrita, as always, thank you for your gentle comments & loving heart. :)</span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">We attended the First Baptist church this last week. In general, we like it pretty well, tho to be honest, as much as i enjoy the Pastor, 60+ minutes of sermon is too much for me. But one thing he said this past week that Duane & i both struggled over was on "The fear of the Lord." He equated fear with trust. We just don't see that. This pastor said, "You trust most the one you fear most." We find a lot of holes in that thought. </span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">I fear our government a lot, but i don't trust it at all. </span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">I fear an out of control gang, or police department, or shark, but i don't trust it.</span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">In reading other blogs on faith & doubt, those that struggle with those issues the most seem to be the ones who came to be a Christian due to their fear of hell or of condemnation. </span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">So i just don't see this point at all. But i've decided that i don't mind sitting in a sermon where i disagree with someone. If the pastor had not said this, i think we would have walked away saying, "That was a good sermon," but not remembered any of it. This stuck it in my mind to study on at a later date. </span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">I wonder if the word "fear" as in "the fear of the Lord" is different than the way we use the term fear today?</span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">38</span></span>Kathrynhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03272307621143522274noreply@blogger.com4tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8344474239080799564.post-26929971166025256212010-08-07T17:12:00.000-07:002010-08-07T17:12:14.152-07:00Conversation<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">Our dear friend JT was here for a while yesterday. He lives a couple of hours away. He came up to help Duane take down the tree that is half gone & needs to come down. They didn't do it, they decided they need equipment (rented) like a lift to work the top of the tree separately. Without that, there would be a good chance that taking down the tree would also take down our front upstairs deck. </span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">So we got to visit. </span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">He was raised Catholic (like Duane) & his wife Protestant (like me). They have been searching for a church. He feels drawn back toward the Catholic church, but is having real issues with it. He spoke to the priest in the parish where they live. He would have so much to have to do before he could return to the Catholic church. His wife had been married before & so she would have to go thru annulment on her previous marriage & they would have to be remarried in the Catholic church. The priest told JT that he would "confess him" but "Only face to face. I have to see your eyes to be sure you are sincere" ! ! ! </span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">His wife is confused by the veneration of Mary & praying to the saints. </span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">It seems to me that it is human tendency - & this comes thru so clearly in churches - that we say "This is good" or that or this or whatever, & we slap a coat of varnish on it & call it done. But that is NOT how life is, nor do i believe it to be what God intends for the Christian life to be. </span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">If we have a truly living faith we can't slap varnish on it, or allow it to become petrified, & claim, "This is what God wants of me in my life." Or worse, "This is what God wants of all Christians." </span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">This is not an exact analogy, but think of a tree & the way it grows. It is not usually symmetrical. It is influenced by the availability of water, & how the wind blows. Now, we can make all the trees look alike. Southern California especially is well known for extreme pruning. Often a tree is difficult if not impossible to distinguish the species from the shape of it because the pruning causes it to look nothing like a naturally-grown tree. I do believe that God does allow for some pruning in our lives. But if we followed the pruning of man (the church), we would all be identical, perfectly symmetrical, show trees. I do not believe that is what God would call us to be. </span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">It is stated in the Bible that we are all different members of the body with different jobs to do. But sometimes i think that the different churches are all trying to force us into a mold where we will be identical members. </span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">The Catholic church has a long, long history (& much of it very ugly) & what has happened over time, i think, is that the different things they have "added" have become petrified. </span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">I had a piece of petrified wood as a child. Wood turned to stone thru mineralization. It was fascinating. But even if it had still been part of the tree, it was no longer living. I think that often the church is in danger of falling prey to this. </span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">Paul, in his first letter to the Corinthians that he wished the unmarried to remain so, but he did not command it. But by the 4th century, the Church made it a requirement that ordained priests be single. They took what Paul suggested & petrified it into law. By doing so, they condemned some people. Some people may have felt that they were called to priesthood, but not to celibacy. To require this of them meant that they had to force themselves into a mold that God had not required. </span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">The Catholic church has done the same with dogmas of Mary & of the transubstantiation (bread & wine becoming body & blood). What is more, because of the belief around this second dogma, for many years the laity did not receive wine in communion. I've heard two reasons for this: One, wine may have been difficult to obtain in some climates. Two, there was the fear that the laity would spill the "holy blood of Christ." This largely is changed again, & most communicants receive both bread & wine. But if the reason was the second one, again, man has petrified something & made it so "holy" that it i out of reach for the majority of folks. </span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">Now, i'm picking on the Catholic church here, largely because these examples are easy for me to lay out & because that church has the longest history. But essentially all denominational churches have done something similar. When they state, "These are the important things to us" they are in a sense petrifying their stance. This isn't all bad. It is good to say, "This is what i believe." </span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">But there are other churches that take this elsewhere. The Southern Baptist convention, when i was in college (about 1992?) split because there was a branch of the church that was putting much emphasis on what would be a social gospel - that of trying to help people eat & have shelter. The staunchly conservative part of the church wasn't concerned about this - they felt the $$ should go toward more missionaries & building programs. (This, i am sure is a very biased & simplified version of that split.) But what really hit me when i was reading about this at the time, was that soon after that split the Southern Baptist convention was in danger of having another split, this time over the ratifying that a Southern Baptist had to believe in a 24 hour day, 7 day creation. Legalism. Rigidity. No room left for any question or doubt. No room left for humanity. </span></span><br />
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It seems to me that the Council of Nicaea did all this work for us in 325 with the Nicene Creed:</span></span><br />
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<blockquote><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">We believe in one God, the Father, the Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all that is, seen and unseen.<br />
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We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father,<br />
God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God, begotten, not made, of one Being with the Father.<br />
Through him all things were made.<br />
For us and for our salvation he came down from heaven, <br />
by the power of the Holy Spirit he became incarnate from the Virgin Mary, and was made man.<br />
For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate; he suffered death and was buried.<br />
On the third day he rose again in accordance with the Scriptures; he ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father.<br />
He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead, and his kingdom will have no end.<br />
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We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life, who proceeds from the Father and the Son.<br />
With the Father and the Son he is worshiped and glorified. </span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">He has spoken through the Prophets.<br />
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We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church.<br />
We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.<br />
We look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. <br />
Amen.</span></span></blockquote><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;"><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">I guess i will never understand why we need a doctrine beyond this. Many doctrines revolve around things like what will happen, exactly, in "the End Times" & did Noah really take 2 of each of the animals on the Ark, & is Mary sinless (so that she would be an appropriate vessel to mother our Lord). </span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">My question, does it really matter? Won't God work this out to his glory & we will know what we need to know in his presence? Why should we fight about it <i>now?</i></span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">Much is being said currently about Anne Rice distancing herself from Christianity. I often would like to do that myself. There is so much done in the name of Christ which i truly dislike. I'm very much outside of what is called "Christian culture" & i didn't actually know that Anne Rice had professed Christianity until this began hitting the blogs. All i knew was that she'd written vampire books that i've never read. </span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">The best i've read on this subject so far is Matt from <a href="http://www.thechurchofnopeople.com/2010/08/i-wish-i-could-quit-christianity/">The Church of No People</a>:</span></span><br />
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<blockquote><span style="font-size: large;">. . . So as much as I’d like to follow Anne and quit Christianity, while conveniently retaining my faith, I can’t. (And really, neither can Anne.) Christ died for people who annoy the living hell out of me, and it does me no good to dwell on how much some people annoy me. Christ even died for people who would use him for personal gain, and I have nothing to say about it. I hate saying that. But I don’t get to say who Jesus has saved, and I don’t get to stop calling myself a Christian. . . Really, almost all of the pastors and Christians who irritate me are the ones getting all the attention. They are the ones teaching false gospels and protesting funerals, and generally being hateful, and maybe they represent an incredibly small minority of us, and it just gets blown up bigger than it is. I think I’m annoyed the most at Christians because my faith is the most important thing in my life. If it takes such a small number to create the problem, maybe there’s enough of us, the <em>other</em> Christians, to be the solution. . . </span><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;"></span></span></blockquote><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;"><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">More is written there, but this is the part i really like & that convicted me. Much as i'd like to walk away from the title "Christian" it isn't an option. He also said in this post, somewhere, that the term "Christian" was a pejorative when it first began to be used. It still is, of course, but i tend to think that we've changed the reason it is an insult, & not for the better. </span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">He also wrote the post, "<a href="http://www.thechurchofnopeople.com/2010/08/christians-of-a-dying-breed/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+TheChurchOfNoPeople+%28The+Church+of+No+People+%29">Christians of a Dying Breed</a>" that was good & started much interesting debate in the comments. </span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">Then there is this vid: <a href="http://www.godtube.com/featured/video/reasons-why-people-dont-go-church?vdt=recent_videos%7Cblock_1">Reasons Why People Don't Go to Church</a><a href="http://www.godtube.com/featured/video/reasons-why-people-dont-go-church?vdt=recent_videos%7Cblock_1"></a></span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">I'm not promoting this last one. I'm afraid to say i had hoped better things of it. Maybe i'm missing something, but it seemed to be a very shallow rendering of why some people are no longer part of a church. There are reasons, good reasons, serious reasons why even older Christians no longer feel the church to be filling a need or even being relevant to their lives. We are struggling with some of those very reasons. </span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">I do feel that for me the answer is to no longer look to fill my needs so much as to find a place where i can work. Frankly, i've lived much of my life in depression & depression is little more than looking inward. God has healed so much of that & i believe it is time for me to look outward & try to do more. Have been working on that for a few years now. However, that is something i find difficult & it rather backfired on us at the Lutheran church for the whole reason we joined that church was so that we could serve. </span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">37</span></span>Kathrynhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03272307621143522274noreply@blogger.com4tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8344474239080799564.post-54496318691900639262010-07-22T09:18:00.000-07:002010-07-22T09:18:49.773-07:00More Gossip<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">Okay, i just have so much more to say about the Lutheran church where we just resigned our membership.</span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">We have recently been hung up on all the negatives, all the weirdness, all the bad from that church. In fact, when i've told people what was said & why i was upset, the question i often get is, "He said <i>what?</i> Why are you still going there?"</span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">I know i've said some of this before, but it needs to be said again. This is why we went there & continued for so long. </span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">When we first visited the church, it was clear to us that G loves Jesus very much. He was passionate about living for God. He was very concerned that people hold to a Biblical authority & not just whatever they feel at the moment. He was very concerned that we not "water down" the Word of God to fit our current culture. </span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">The church wasn't just friendly, it was loving & warm. There was a depth of concern for the members that i've rarely seen in other churches. </span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">Week after week people would be asking about us, & we rarely if ever felt it was a routine inquiry. We felt the folks sincerely cared, as we did too. When someone was missing it was felt by all. </span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">When one of our members lost his home, the church council rallied in a very loving manner, even more so to be sure to spare the member's feelings as much as possible. When the economic downturn happened, we began collecting food weekly. That church does not have the staff or ability to distribute what was brought in, so it was taken to another church that does a routine distribution. However, every week it was said that if anyone in the congregation was in need, that they should avail themselves of the collected food before it was taken elsewhere. Eventually one of the council members suggested that the people who might need it might be too embarrassed to take it for themselves, so the announcement was changed to "If you or anyone you know are in need, please utilize the food brought in. If you know your neighbor is struggling to buy groceries, then please feel free to take food for them."</span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">That church routinely sends flowers to folks who are ill. Not just those in hospital, & not just when they first get sick. There are some who have long term illness & the church remembers them not just at the outset. It was their sending flowers to me that let us know that we had a problem because of their perception of why we were not there. </span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">Every week that church went beyond coffee & donuts to a small brunch-type meal (that meant a lot of work for the women). They very much desired everyone to stay for this fellowship. Also, 3-4 times a year the church would have a potluck meal at the fellowship time. Easter & a Christmas tree trimming were the large ones, but they usually had one or two others as well. This church desired to fellowship with members & visitors. </span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">Every year they have a 3 day Vacation Bible School for the children. I know that is typical in most churches, but most churches have younger women & mamas & often teens to implement the program. I believe the average age of woman attending the Lutheran Church is probably about 62 (& that is a low average because of me & maybe 2 others others). Most of the women doing a VBS are 70 or older. </span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">G, the pastor, was able to be very compassionate to those in grief or stress. He deeply desired to comfort those who were hurting. </span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">We prefer a liturgical church & that form of worship. This church has liturgy, tho not the exact liturgy to which we are accustomed. Liturgy fills a need in me that i have not found in other forms of worship.</span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">Also, & <i>this cannot be overlooked</i>, being part of a church that the doctrine does not fit where we are at <i>sharpened</i> us. Toward the end of our being there, nearly every week we spent our drive to OC discussing what had been said, whether we thought it Biblical or not, & whether we felt he was taking verses out of context. This, far more than a Bible study where everyone agrees on all points, helped us to grow more than anything else i can imagine.</span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">So, while we struggle with the harshness & the things we see so glaringly wrong, i do want to keep all the good in mind. These are the reasons we stayed so long, & these are the reasons it is difficult to leave. </span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">36</span></span>Kathrynhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03272307621143522274noreply@blogger.com4tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8344474239080799564.post-77238470079620946222010-07-20T09:08:00.000-07:002010-07-20T09:08:07.988-07:00Thinking trivial things<i><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;"><b>Gossip</b>: 1. idle talk or rumor, esp. about the personal or private affairs of others 2. light, familiar talk or writing 3. (gossiper) a person given to tattling or idle talk 4. (British) godparent 5. (Archaic) a friend, esp. a woman</span></span></i><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;"><i>babble, chitchat, defamation, hearsay, idle talk, malicious talk, meddling, rumor, scandal, scuttlebutt, slander, small talk, busybody, gossipmonger, snoop, talebearer, tattler</i></span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">(The last definition - 5 - makes sense as i've often read in older books like Dickens about the "old gossips" indicating women probably engaged in idle talk, but it makes sense that the word would take its current meaning if the women were given to idle talk when friends got together.)</span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">I'm still really struggling to "let go." It probably will be a while for me as we are people who have been very involved in church, it has occupied much of our thought & lives, & letting go of that won't be an easy thing. But it has occurred to me that to say much more about it is gossip. I have lots of theories & things to say, but they are not profitable. </span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">I ran into a dear friend yesterday when i was in town. Elke came here from Germany as a child, so she is very Lutheran. However, she said that she's stopped going to church. The pamphlet i copied in a <a href="http://4katekattoo.blogspot.com/2010/07/for-those-who-are-interested-cont.html">previous post</a> was passed out at church. It made her angry. She said "That's not what church is about!" And, "He (G) doesn't have the right to do that!" Except, of course, he does. He is implementing some old rules that most of the LCMS churches no longer follow (Elke says that when she went thru confirmation she was encouraged to visit other churches to learn about how other churches choose to do things). But those old rules are still on the books & G has chosen to enforce them (in our opinion, in order to strengthen his rule & set fear in parishioners, but that may be my lack of charity speaking). </span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">I told Elke that Duane & i want to start a Bible Study & she's interested. So that's good. However, she is also a busy person, frequently on the go. So, while she'd love to come & participate, i don't think commitment would be a part of it for her. Still, it is a good place to begin. (Although i have to admit that i hate the idea of starting something & having it peter out.)</span></span><br />
<blockquote><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;"></span></span><b><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">Shine Jesus Shine</span></span></b><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">Lord, the light of your love is shining</span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">In the midst of the darkness, shining</span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">Jesus, light of the world, shine upon us</span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">Set us free by the truth you now bring us</span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">Shine on me, shine on me</span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">Shine Jesus shine</span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">Fill this land with the Father's glory</span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">Blaze Spirit blaze</span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">Set our hearts on fire</span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">Flow river flow</span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">Flood the nations with grace & mercy</span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">Send forth your word Lord</span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">And let there be light</span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">Lord i come to your awesome presence</span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">From the shadows into your radiance</span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">By the blood i may enter your brightness</span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">Search me, try me, consume all my darkness</span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">Shine on me, shine on me. </span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">As we gaze on your kindly brightness</span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">So our faces display your likeness</span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">Ever changing from glory to glory</span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">Mirrored here may our lives tell your story</span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">Shine on me, shine on me</span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">Cliff Richard (? not sure about the credit, he may just have been the artist who preformed this; i also saw Graham Kendrick credited)</span></span></blockquote><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;"><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">We sang this on Sunday. I've always liked this song. It is repeating in my head, but i don't find it irritating as repeated music often tends to be. I really, really liked the music on Sunday. They sang some very easy to sing hymns & also a couple of praise songs. They had MUSIC in that church with a choir & all. I'm not running down "praise bands." I used to love staying for the music at St. James when the praise band led. (They called those of us who stayed from the more traditional service that had been held earlier, MOs - music only, 'cause we left when the music was done.)</span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">But nothing that we've seen in church hopping has the heart in it like the St. James folks had. I'd forgotten how much i loved singing in a church that really knows music until we visited the Methodist church on Sunday. It also was incorporated <i>into the service</i>, not a "preliminary to the preaching" as is so often done in Protestant churches these days. </span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">Somehow the way churches have developed/evolved where they have all the music at the beginning & then a long, long sermon seems to have lost heart, for me. Maybe it is just that i don't know most of the praise music they are singing now. But it also seems to have lost a lot of the "flow" that services used to have. The Baptist church Duane likes is really foreign to me. They don't even have a closing hymn. The pastor kind of says, "Bless you this week," after his prayer & we're done. Now, i'm not running down this form of service. It works for a lot of people (or they don't know what they're missing), but it doesn't work so well for me. </span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">Anyway, just a few thoughts on things that have happened in the past couple of days.</span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">35</span></span>Kathrynhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03272307621143522274noreply@blogger.com5tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8344474239080799564.post-36271268625440359422010-07-16T08:29:00.000-07:002010-07-16T08:31:53.121-07:00Just some thoughts<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"></div><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"></div><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_S68ziSBCl3s/TEB34-Jf0yI/AAAAAAAAFLs/H3WtiMbGLNM/s1600/santa-ana-river-trail-bridge.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" height="480" src="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_S68ziSBCl3s/TEB34-Jf0yI/AAAAAAAAFLs/H3WtiMbGLNM/s640/santa-ana-river-trail-bridge.jpg" width="640" /></a></div><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_S68ziSBCl3s/TEB4Goe6MAI/AAAAAAAAFL0/EM-VmMfLU98/s1600/DSC_3896.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" height="426" src="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_S68ziSBCl3s/TEB4Goe6MAI/AAAAAAAAFL0/EM-VmMfLU98/s640/DSC_3896.JPG" width="640" /></a></div><br />
<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;"> The top pic is of the Santa Ana River as it runs thru Orange County, CA. The dark line running down the middle of that concrete is the actual water. The rest of all that is built is for flood control, when we have a lot of rain. And that concrete area often is FULL during flood season. And it is very dangerous. People who try to negotiate it often lose their lives. The "road" on the left as you look at the pic is a bike path. Folks are allowed to ride their bikes there when the river is low & safe.</span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">The second pic is of the Santa Ana River, near the headwaters. Eva & i were there last week. It is not much more than a little creek at the moment, but i'm sure that during flood season & during the snow-melt, this little thing gets quite full & dangerous as well.</span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">Now, this isn't exactly an apt analogy, but i rather see that what the churches have done with their doctrine & dogma is similar to what we've done to the Santa Ana River. Look at what it is when it is as God created it. Then look at what man has done. We want it to be rigid, not fluid, controllable, not controlling us. </span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">(Please don't misunderstand me. Much of Orange County is a flood plain & had this not been done to the river, many times each decade houses would be flooded or maybe even washed away. In order to build as we did, the river had to be contained. But it is not pretty. It disturbs me, even tho i know something had to be done.)</span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">34</span></span>Kathrynhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03272307621143522274noreply@blogger.com5tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8344474239080799564.post-84974876693870393172010-07-16T08:10:00.000-07:002010-07-16T08:10:55.201-07:00Finale<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">This is the letter we will most likely be sending out later today:</span></span><br />
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<div align="LEFT" style="font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; margin-bottom: 0in; text-decoration: none;"> <span style="color: black; font-size: large;"><span style="font-family: Chaparral Pro;">16 July 2010</span></span></div><div align="LEFT" style="margin-bottom: 0in;"><span style="font-size: large;"><br />
</span> </div><div style="margin-bottom: 0in;"><span style="font-size: large;"><br />
</span> </div><div style="margin-bottom: 0in;"><span style="font-family: Chaparral Pro; font-size: large;">The Reverend G (Last Name)</span></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0in;"><span style="font-family: Chaparral Pro; font-size: large;">Elders of the Church</span></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0in;"><span style="font-family: Chaparral Pro; font-size: large;">Congregation members </span></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0in;"><span style="font-family: Chaparral Pro; font-size: large;">SITP Lutheran Church</span></div><span style="font-size: large;"><br />
</span><div align="LEFT" style="font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; margin-bottom: 0in; text-decoration: none;"> <span style="color: black; font-size: large;"><span style="font-family: Chaparral Pro;">Big Bear Lake, CA 92315</span></span></div><div align="LEFT" style="font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; margin-bottom: 0in; text-decoration: none;"> <span style="font-size: large;"><br />
</span> </div><div align="LEFT" style="font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; margin-bottom: 0in; text-decoration: none;"> <span style="font-size: large;"><br />
</span> </div><div align="LEFT" style="font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; margin-bottom: 0in; text-decoration: none;"> <span style="color: black; font-size: large;"><span style="font-family: Chaparral Pro;">Dear Pastor (Last Name), the Elders of SITP, and Church Body -</span></span></div><div align="LEFT" style="font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; margin-bottom: 0in; text-decoration: none;"> <span style="font-size: large;"><br />
</span> </div><div align="LEFT" style="font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; margin-bottom: 0in; text-decoration: none;"> <span style="color: black; font-size: large;"><span style="font-family: Chaparral Pro;">We sincerely apologize for the appearance of disrespect in our recent letters when we neglected to properly use the title of “Pastor.” We intended no disrespect whatsoever. Neither of us was raised in a church where the title “Pastor” was used as a formal address, so the appearance of disrespect due to the lack of this title was in no way intentional. Please forgive this oversight on our part. </span></span> </div><div align="LEFT" style="font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; margin-bottom: 0in; text-decoration: none;"> <span style="font-size: large;"><br />
</span> </div><div align="LEFT" style="font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; margin-bottom: 0in; text-decoration: none;"> <span style="color: black; font-size: large;"><span style="font-family: Chaparral Pro;">We are sad that any member of the congregation would be treated in the manner which we have experienced in this situation. </span></span> </div><div align="LEFT" style="font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; margin-bottom: 0in; text-decoration: none;"> <span style="font-size: large;"><br />
</span> </div><div align="LEFT" style="font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; margin-bottom: 0in; text-decoration: none;"> <span style="color: black; font-size: large;"><span style="font-family: Chaparral Pro;">In light of the letter sent and the pamphlet presented on LCMS's stand on “close communion,” as well as other issues within the SITP body, it is very apparent to us that SITP is not where we feel the Lord would have us worship. Please know that we appreciate the Pastor, the elders, the council, and the members of the congregation, and love you all very much. Our time at SITP has helped us to grow and has stretched us and strengthened our faith. We thank you and you will remain in our prayers.</span></span></div><div align="LEFT" style="font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; margin-bottom: 0in; text-decoration: none;"> <span style="font-size: large;"><br />
</span> </div><div align="LEFT" style="margin-bottom: 0in;"><span style="font-family: Chaparral Pro; font-size: large;"><span style="font-family: Chaparral Pro;">We formally request that our names be removed from your membership rolls.</span></span></div><div align="LEFT" style="margin-bottom: 0in;"><span style="font-size: large;"><br />
</span> </div><div align="LEFT" style="margin-bottom: 0in;"><span style="font-family: Chaparral Pro; font-size: large;"><span style="font-family: Chaparral Pro;">Sincerely & with the Love of Christ,</span></span></div><div align="LEFT" style="margin-bottom: 0in;"><span style="font-size: large;"><br />
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</span> </div><div align="LEFT" style="font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; margin-bottom: 0in; text-decoration: none;"> <span style="color: black; font-size: large;"><span style="font-family: Chaparral Pro;"><span style="font-family: Chaparral Pro;">Mr. and Mrs. Duane D</span></span></span> </div><div align="LEFT" style="font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; margin-bottom: 0in; text-decoration: none;"> <span style="font-size: large;"><br />
</span> </div><div align="LEFT" style="font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; margin-bottom: 0in; text-decoration: none;"> <span style="color: black;"><span style="font-family: Chaparral Pro;"><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: Chaparral Pro;"><span style="font-size: large;">cc: the elders </span></span></span></span></span></div><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;"> </span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">I'm looking forward to moving on & putting this behind me. I know that i tend to obsess about things & have a hard time letting go. It takes me a while to move on. We want our names off that membership list ASAP for as long as we are listed as "members" we are under their authority, sanction, & discipline & they can claim we are working at "disaffection." Speaking to another member freely would be seen as an attempt to sabotage the church. I want simply to not have that hanging over me. </span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">Duane had me edit this quite a bit. I had it simpler, but he wanted to make sure that this letter is clear - we are apologizing for messing up the title/address used, NOT for the contents of the previous letters. He also had me add the "We're sad that any member . . . " line/paragraph. We had to think about it a lot in order to do that, for we didn't want to look like we were taking parting shots at them (tho of course we're honest to admit between us that is exactly what we WANT to do). </span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">Looking forward to new adventures! And may they be a little less "interesting" than this one turned out to be. </span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;"> </span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">I'm probably not done with writing about LCMS background, however. I find that the history of that church is, i believe, poisonous. I'm leaning toward rejecting most organized church doctrine. The believers in the early church did not have big, fancy buildings, detailed dogma, or the other trappings we've come to see as "church." They got together, studied what scripture they had, praised & worshiped God, & celebrated together. </span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">I've long said that i believe the statements of the Nicene creed & don't think we should be adding more. The idea that believing in a 7-24 hour creation, or whether Jesus will return "pre- mid- or post- tribulation" or any other "set in stone" belief churches have set out has anything to do with a real walk with God is ludicrous to me. Also, i was taught in school, many years ago, that we look at the base of what the different churches teach. If they are based on the very basics of what is accepted as Christianity, that the rest of the things they add on the foundation are merely window dressing. (Although, the history of LCMS is that if you do not believe exactly as they do in every particular, then you are "in error." I hate such rigidity.) Of course, that was before the homosexuality issue was so at the fore. Also, many churches still bear the name of Christ, & may even say the creeds, but what they believe & teach doesn't really align with that. </span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">Thoughts for another day. </span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">33</span></span>Kathrynhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03272307621143522274noreply@blogger.com3tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8344474239080799564.post-54329836411469016992010-07-13T16:04:00.000-07:002010-07-13T18:46:23.020-07:00More info<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">Duane & i were talking again yesterday about the church issue. He had been tired Sunday PM & took a long nap, so he didn't sleep much Sunday night. Monday AM very early (about 2.30) he got up & wrote another letter. </span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">While i was leaning toward a brief response to the letter, his was long & detailed. But very good. Also, i tend toward more formal language in a letter of that sort. It was obvious to me that the second letter came from him & not me. </span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;"> </span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">But in talking this over, i said to Duane, "My gut reaction ever since the letter arrived is that you should call R (the elder who sent the letter) & speak to him directly." Duane thought that a good idea & almost immediately picked up the phone. I did slow him down & asked him, "What is our motivation for this? What are we hoping to accomplish by this?"</span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">Duane felt that largely his motivation is that this does not happen again. We both agree that we are strong in our faith & able to handle this (yes, of course, with God's help), but that someone newer/weaker in faith might not. He wants to be sure this isn't repeated. </span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">So Duane called, & was on the phone with R for more than an hour & a half. </span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">Much was said, probably more than i know, for Duane was outside (having trouble with reception on his phone). I can't begin to hit all the things Duane has mentioned, but here are the highlights. </span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">The reason we were disrespectful "</span></span><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">to the dignity of the Pastoral office"? Because we did not address G as "Pastor." ! ! ! </span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">Nothing we said gained much response. It was leaving out the title. I will admit, honestly, that i decided not to send the letter to "The Reverend G ____." However, i've never thought of the word "pastor" as a proper title. Evidently the elders went on & on about our disrespect in not using that title/word. </span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">Duane said that had we simply sent another letter trying even more to explain, nothing would have been done, for they were all caught up in our disrespect & not seeing anything more.</span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">Duane also had to have such a long conversation because he kept having to diffuse the defensiveness toward their position. But he is very good at this. He kept - not being defensive - but "on the defensive" by working very hard at not fighting, not hitting back, not going on the offensive. He said, over & over, about the respect/disrespect issue, "That was my mistake. I prayed over the content of the letter & missed the address." When Duane would say something like, "Well that's your job as an elder," R would respond, "Don't tell me my job! I know what my job is!" Duane would have to say, "You're right! I don't know your job. I was assuming." </span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">Eventually it worked. R let lose of most of the defensiveness although it popped up from time to time, still. R admitted that he was "voted down" - for what exactly we're not sure - but the idea came across that he wanted to have us in & discuss this to try to find out what was behind it. Instead, he was instructed to send us the letter.</span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">The reason the letter was so garbled? R tried to keep notes at the meeting on the salient points he was told to cover & the resulting mess was simply typed directly from his notes. That takes a bit of air out of our sails about the "disrespect" we felt was sent to us in that letter, because to say that in a general letter now will simply make him look, um, stupid. </span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">Anyway, Duane shared how that we were hurt that G simply told *me* in a phone call that he'd heard the gossip that we were attending other churches, was that true? When i confirmed it, he said we could no longer take communion there. Nothing was said about how to resolve this issues, therefore, it became permanent at that point. Also, no one asked if we had taken communion elsewhere. R said that that wasn't right & that they "didn't meant to hurt us." </span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">At some point R said that his daughter (who is in her late 30s?) had seen us at another church.</span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">Duane asked him, "Has she been told that she can't take communion at SITP then?"</span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">"Um, no."</span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">"Well, if she saw <i>us </i>at another church, i assume <i>she </i>was at another church."</span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">(Yeah, but that's different.)</span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">What the up & down of this became was that we were considered "leadership" & therefore G decided to make an example of us. The whole congregation was given that pamphlet i posted previously. (And had <i>we</i> received it at an earlier time, we would have revoked our membership long ago.) </span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">Duane was blunt with R. Told him that the church has not been practicing "close communion" even if they claim it. He said that it is either one or another. He called it "entrapment" if you practice "close communion" but invite anyone in the congregation to participate. (R has a background in law enforcement & Duane frequently deliberately used terms he would relate to). The intent of the pamphlet is that only members of LCMS or churches that they "recognize" are free to take communion. All churches that are not "recognized" are considered in error & LCMS considers it extremely offensive if not outright sin to participate in communion with such folks. Ok, my sister from the ECLA Lutheran church has taken communion - in direct contradiction to the LCMS standard. Also my Catholic in-laws & my Baptist parents. Probably a few others as well. Because we never knew. And, R told Duane that because we were "leadership" we were held to "a higher standard than the congregation. And when you break a law, even if you didn't know about that law, you are still responsible for the consequences." </span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">But R recognized exactly what Duane was saying in that you can't invite anyone to communion & then still call it "close." Not that it's going to make a difference for us. </span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">Duane also pointed out that "Pastor" frequently uses unsubstantiated urban myths in his sermons, but doesn't check them out. We have at least 3 times now found that things he claims to have been true have no basis in fact (& often are outright fabrications - tho not created by G). But he presents them as fact & often as if they are Biblical.</span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">Duane got nowhere with the charges of "unscriptural teaching." He was told, "You need to bring that up with Pastor. That is a matter between you & him." ! ! ! </span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">In other words, no one is going to hold him accountable for these things. </span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">It was clear to Duane in many ways that G is simply leading them by their noses & telling them what to think & how to respond. </span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">However, he was able to say all the things he felt important to be said. He feels that something like this will not be handled in the same manner in the future. And that <i>maybe</i> he planted a few seeds for listening to being headed in the wrong direction. </span></span><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;"><i>Maybe.</i> </span></span><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">He also told R that we feel something is wrong with G, that we see clear signs of depression & fear. (The beginning of the conversation between Duane & i before the call to R was "Do you think G has a brain tumor? His behavior has been so erratic & bizarre.") Duane had to spell out the ways we have seen/experienced G's depression, fear, & irrational responses. </span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">R had a tendency to say, "Yes, Pastor tends to get excited & say things that might not be exactly right. He's human too." And, the expected, "He is so educated & intelligent. He must know what he's talking about, even if he gets a bit over-excited."</span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">Anyway, we've said what needed to be said, planted what seeds we can, done as much as we can. Maybe it will make a difference. </span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">From this point we will probably just send a simple letter apologizing for the "offense" of leaving out the title "pastor" & asking our names be removed from the membership list. Not much else for us to do. (I think that G is doing a "wag the dog" response in that their focus was on the lack of the title <i>"Pastor"</i> when our charges was that he has begun <i>teaching things which are not unscriptural</i>. However, maybe i'm just lacking in charity there.)</span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">I'm glad that Duane called. It went a long way toward smoothing things over. We feel as good as we can about this. I definitely agree with Kathi's comment that it is sad how churches hurt people. And i'm definitely questioning the wisdom about having/belonging to an "organized church." I'll probably revisit that at a later time.</span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">Several times during this conversation (i was not listening or even close by, but from time to time i would hear some of it as i was doing other things) i thanked God for my dear, Godly husband, head of our household, & willing to take this bull by the horns. </span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">Thank you all for listening & walking thru this with us, your comments & support. We are not "hurting." We are sad. No more, i think. This hasn't harmed us. I can't speak for the other folks in that church.</span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">32</span></span>Kathrynhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03272307621143522274noreply@blogger.com3tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8344474239080799564.post-83013602928515405372010-07-11T23:43:00.000-07:002010-07-11T23:43:49.995-07:00Yada, yada<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">Duane & i talked quite late into the night last night about the letter & pamphlet sent to us. I'm not sure what we are going to do. Probably the simplest & most expedient way to deal with this is to simply request that our names be removed from the membership list. There is so much we want to say, but i think it is obvious that these folks can't hear it.</span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">Duane & i are both very sad. Not so much for us. As i've said before, we both feel that we have learned so much & grown so much thru this. But we are so very sad for the people we care about.</span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">The incomprehensible letter (undated/unsigned) makes it clear that the elders either 1. Did not read our letters (Gene called & "explained" to them what we had said & how we were so disrespectful) or 2. They did not grasp what we were saying. Or a combination of the two. </span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">There is no way to say this without sounding rude, but we don't have a lot of confidence in the intelligence of most of the elders to grasp what we were saying. The response letter makes it clear they may not have the capacity to understand. Regardless, the elders are the ones responsible to be sure the church stays on track.</span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">I am offended that they think our letter indicates dis</span></span><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">respect "to the dignity of the Pastoral office." We put a lot of time, effort, editing, & prayer into that letter, striving NOT to show disrespect. At this point we can't help but have disrespect for both the pastor & the elders, but we are striving <i>not to be disrespectful</i>. We have re-read what we wrote & feel that no disrespect was tendered. I'm also offended by the remarks about dissension, as that is the very thing we have worked <i>very </i>hard not to create.</span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">But i'm really much more concerned by the pamphlet sent. I so wish that had been given us before we ever joined that church. In it embodies many of the attitudes with which i've struggled in this church. Jessica wrote in a previous comment she hears, "</span></span>haughtiness, arrogance, self-righteousness, pride and pushing people away.<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">" and those are the very attitudes which have so greatly disturbed me for some time. I never recognized them as sanctioned by the actual church doctrine, however. </span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">Part of the pamphlet was quoting the first president of the LCMS, C.F.W. Walther, who lived 1811-1887. According to <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C._F._W._Walther">Wikipedia</a>, he was "vigorously opposed to non-Lutheran denominations in America." He wrote this passage, "</span></span><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">Even one who confesses the Real Presence cannot ordinarily, except in the case of death, be admitted if he is and wants to remain, not a member of our orthodox church, but rather a Roman Catholic, Reformed, so-called Evangelical or Unionist, Methodist, Baptist, in short, a member of an erring fellowship." which i found very offensive. </span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">The pamphlet makes it very clear that the LCMS church practices "close communion" but SITP <i>DID NOT</i> as they opened communion in each & every bulletin. That created a lot of confusion for us. It also creates a somewhat "secret society" because we have a number of folks who attend multiple churches & still take communion at SITP. So it comes down to, "Did we have to seek 'permission' from the pastor in order to visit other churches? And how on earth were we suppose to know that?" </span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">I've been studying Lutheran doctrine for the past day or so, & what i've found has made me very, very uncomfortable. I guess i should have done this long ago, but as the risen Christ was being preached, i thought the doctrine not so very important. I was wrong, very wrong. I'm finding it hard to imagine that i'll ever feel comfortable "belonging" to a church again. </span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">The things i find disturbing in Lutheran doctrine did not originate with Luther, however. What i've read of him indicates that he came to not even believe in a priesthood, but that each of us shares in the priesthood. Also what i read indicates that very soon after he began trying to pastor in a healthier way there were folks wanting to take his beliefs/theories/theology, etc. & create the doctrine which has so enslaved people today. </span></span><br />
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I remember from long ago, i used to HATE Calvin. But in college while studying the different evolutions of doctrines, i learned that what i hated was Calvinism & what the doctrine had become. In both the cases of Calvin & Luther, they sincerely desired for the people to live free & to not have fears about life & relationship to God. But we also learned that within 2 generations their teaching had evolved into doctrine which enslaved the people, robbing them of the very freedoms that both Calvin & Luther had sought to insure. </span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">We seem to have run up against the very worst of Lutheranism without realizing it. I'm sad. Frankly, as i've said before, this church carries some very strong hallmarks of a cult. I don't think it has crossed over to that status, but it is a near thing, in my opinion. They do preach Christ died, buried, risen. But much of the preaching does not bring the freedoms i believe Jesus came to give us. </span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">I have currently drafted a fairly simple letter to the church requesting our names be removed from their membership rolls. However, i did say some things in the letter that we may choose not to say. We may simplify it even further. But for now i think we'll just let it sit for a week or two. It took them over a month to respond to our request for clarification. We don't have to jump on this. </span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">Anyway, just my recent thoughts on the matter.</span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">31</span></span>Kathrynhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03272307621143522274noreply@blogger.com3tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8344474239080799564.post-60613308292233483412010-07-11T02:13:00.000-07:002010-07-11T02:13:24.435-07:00For Those who are Interested, con't<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">Back on 9 June, i posted "<a href="http://4katekattoo.blogspot.com/2010/06/for-those-who-are-interested_09.html">For Those who are Interested</a>" the letters we sent to the pastor, G, & the church elders. </span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">Today <i>Duane</i> received a letter addressed <i>to him</i> from one of the elders. With the exception that i'm abbreviating the name of the church at the end, this is the exact letter sent (including spelling, errors & typos). This letter had no date & was unsigned. It is as follows:</span></span><br />
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<blockquote><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">Dear Duane Dickerson, </span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;"> We are asking you to resubmit your request in a manner that shows respect to the dignity of the Pastoral office.</span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;"> Until the process of the finish of you submission you are barred from the communion table and membership activities. Note this is not because of your feelings of being excommunicated, you are not being excommunicated. It's because of L.C.M.S., position on closed communion { see the enclosed article}. </span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;"> You are welcome to attend our worship and fellowship, however if in our opinion you are causing any form of dissention among the Body of Christ you will be asked to leave and not be allowed to return. </span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">Thank you,</span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;"> The Elder's of SITP Lutheran Church.</span></span></blockquote><br />
<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">The article enclosed reads as follows (& if you don't want to read this whole, long thing i will try to do a brief recap at the bottom):</span></span><br />
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<blockquote><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;"> <b>What About . . .</b></span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: large;"><b><span><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">Fellowship in the Lord's Supper</span></span></b></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">Fellowship in the Lord's Supper is the basis for the practice of "close" or "closed" communion." (The phrases "close communion" and "closed communion" refer to one and the same practice). This pamphlet will help you appreciate, understand and explain to others the practice of close communion.</span></span><br />
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<b><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">What does God teach in His Word?</span></span></b><br />
<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;"> "Jesus took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to his disciples, saying, 'Take and eat; this is my body.' Then he took the cup, gave thanks and offered it to them, saying, 'Drink from it, all of you. This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.'" (cf. Matt. 26:26-28; Mark 14:22-25; Luke 22:14-20; 1 cor. 11:17-29).</span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;"> "They devoted themselves to the apostles' teaching and to the fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer" (Acts 2:42).</span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;"> "Whenever you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord's death until he comes. Therefore, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord. A man ought to examine himself before he eats of the bread and drinks of the cup. For anyone who eats and drinks without recognizing the body of the Lord eats and drinks judgment on himself" (1 Cor. 11:26-29).</span></span><br />
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<b><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">What does the Lutheran church believe about the Lord's Supper?</span></span></b><br />
<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;"> The Lutheran church believes, teaches and confesses that the Lord's Supper is the true body and blood of our Lord Jesus Christ, under the bread and wine, given to us Christians to eat and to drink. We hold that the bread and the wine in the Supper are the true body and blood of Christ and that these are given and received into the mouths of all who commune. Those who believe the promise: "Given and shed for you for the forgiveness of sins," receive forgiveness of sins, life and salvation. This promise, along with the bodily eating and drinking, is the main thing in the Sacrament.</span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;"> The Lutheran church rejects and condemns incorrect understandings of the Lord's Supper, such as the view that the sacrifice of the Mass delivers man from his sins, or that the substance of the consecrated bread and wine is actually changed into the body and blood of Christ. We also reject and condemn the view that in the Lord's Supper the true body and blood of Christ is not received by the mouth of the communicants, under the bread and wine, but is received only spiritually in the heart by faith, or that the bread and wine are only symbols of the far-distant body ad blood of our Lord.</span></span><br />
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<b><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">How is the Lord's Supper an expression of church fellowship?</span></span></b><br />
<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;"> While the Lord's Supper is always a personal matter, it is never a private matter. That is an important truth that is often overlooked. Those who commune at the same altar are thereby declaring publically that they are united in the doctrine of the Apostles (Acts 2:42). Therefore, fellowship in the Supper is church fellowship. This is what is taught by Holy Scripture in 1 Cor. 10 and 11. Here is how one our church's teachers explained this truth. </span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;"> "As there is but one bread, one loaf, from which we eat, so we who are eating of this loaf are one body. The eating of one and the same loaf of bread unifies us to one body. Our participation in the Lord's Supper is a public profession on our part that we are not only in fellowship with Christ, but that we also are in fellowship with those with whom we commune at the Lord's Table. We all eat the same bread, the body of Christ. Through that act we indicate that we belong together. All of us Christians who in the Lord's Supper eat the body of Christ and drink His blood present ourselves as one spiritual family. What we eat and drink together, Christ's body and blood, ties us together more closely than the bonds of blood. We declare ourselves to be brothers and sisters in Christ. Upon this Bible passage do e base the saying 'Altar Fellowship is Church Fellowship.'</span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;"> "This passage in Corinthians strikes a crushing blow at unionism. To admit those who believe differently to our Communion, and so to our church fellowship, is a contradiction in itself. For those who approach the same altar together profess to be one -- one in all points of Christian doctrine and practice -- while in reality they disagree. It would be shameful hypocrisy on our part if we would have those who actually profess a different faith than we do join us at the Lord's Altar" (Stoeckhardt, 1 Corinthians, p. 60-61).</span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;"> Another teacher of our church had this to say about why the Lord's Supper is an expression of church fellowship:</span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;"> "The Holy Supper is one of the marks, one of the banners of the church, on of the seals of the church doctrine and faith (Rom. 4:11, see 1 Cor. 10:21; Ex. 12:48). In whichever church one receives the Holy Supper, one is confessing that church and its doctrine. There cannot be a more inward, brotherly fellowship than that into which one enters with those in whose fellowship he receives the holy Supper . . . Even one who confesses the Real Presence cannot ordinarily, except in the case of death, be admitted if he is and wants to remain, not a member of our orthodox church, but rather a Roman Catholic, Reformed, so-called Evangelical or Unionist, Methodist, Baptist, in short, a member of an erring fellowship. For the Sacrament, as it is a seal of faith, is also the banner of the fellowship in which it is administered" (Walther, <i>Pastoral Theology</i>, p. 110-111, 149). </span></span><br />
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<b><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">What is the Lutheran church's motive for practicing close communion?</span></span></b><br />
<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;"> Our Synod's Commission on Theology and Church Relations offers the following helpful explanation of why we practice close communion:</span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;"> "Close communion seeks to prevent a profession of confessional unity in faith where there is, in fact, disunity and disagreement. It would be neither faithful to the 'scriptural requirements for admission to Holy Communion (1 Cor. 11:27ff; cf. 10:16-17) nor helpful to fallen humanity if the Christian Church welcomes to its altars those who deny or question clear Scriptural teachings.</span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;"> "The reasons for the practice of close Communion are often misunderstood by Christians who have been accustomed to an 'open Communion' policy. In a tract titled, <i>Why Close Communion?</i> the rationale for the practice of close communion is explained in this way:</span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;"> 'So it is not that a Lutheran congregation wants to bar fellow-saints from the blessings of the Eucharist when they practice Close Communion. It is not that they want to be separatistic, or set themselves up as judges of other men. The practice of Close Communion is prompted by love and is born of the heartfelt conviction, on the basis of Scripture alone, that we must follow Christ's command. This means refusing the Lord's Supper to those whose belief is not known to us. It is not showing love to allow a person to do something harmful, even though he may think it is for his own good. It also means if they are members of a Christian body which departs from the full truth of the Scripture in some of its doctrines, that we must not minimize the evil of this false teaching by opening our fellowship to any and all Christians who err in the faith' [Deffner, <i>Why Close Communion?</i>, p.14].</span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;"> "In Keeping with the principle that the celebration and reception of the Lord's Supper is a confession of the unity of the faith, while at the same time recognizing that there will be instances when sensitive pastoral care needs to be exercised the Synod has established an official practice requiring, 'that pastors and congregations of The Lutheran Church -- Missouri Synod, except in situations of emergency and in special cases of pastoral care, commune individuals of only those synods that are now in fellowship with us. By following this practice whereby only those individuals who are members of the Synod or of a church body with which the Synod is in altar and pulpit fellowship are ordinarily communed, pastors and congregations preserve the integrity of their witness to the Gospel of Christ as it is revealed in the Scriptures and confessed in the Lutheran confessional writings.'"</span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;"> "The Office of the Keys is less than faithfully exercised when admission to the Sacrament is granted to all who come to the alter regardless of their faith and congregational and/or denominational affiliation. The practice of open Communion renders it difficult, if not impossible, for church discipline to be exercised in a way that honors the ministrations being carried out by those to whom the responsibility of spiritual care for a member of God's flock has been entrusted: (Heb. 13:17; cf. John 20:22-23; Acts 20:27-28; 1 Cor. 4:1-2. <i>Theology and Practice of the Lord's Supper</i>, pp. 21-23).</span></span><br />
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<b><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">Conclusion</span></span></b><br />
<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;"> On the basis of God's Holy Word, our Lutheran church continues to practice the ancient, Biblical and confessional practice of close communion as an opportunity to give joyful witness to our unity in the true faith. We practice close communion with the belief that this is what the Lord would have us to do as we faithfully administer His body and blood in His holy Sacrament. </span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;"> Close communion is not a practice unique to The Lutheran Church -- Missouri Synod. It is also practiced by the majority of Christians in the world who are members of the Roman Catholic and Orthodox communions.</span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;"> Hopefully, this brief explanation will help you, or someone else, understand that our love for our Lord and His Sacrament, and our love for the individual, is the reason why we practice close communion. </span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;"> --Dr. A.L. Barry</span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;"> President</span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;"> The Lutheran Church -- Missouri Synod</span></span></blockquote><br />
<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">I have done my best to faithfully copy the original letter, both in spelling and punctuation. </span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">In brief, it says that any church that does not believe exactly as the Lutheran Missouri Synod does is in error. It says that to take communion with someone in error is to fellowship with evil (beliefs) & contrary to the word of God as the LCMS understands it. </span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">One of the people quoted is the first president of LCMS, who lived 1811-1887. He was "vigorously opposed to all non-Lutheran theologies." <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C._F._W._Walther">Wikipedia</a>. </span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">Remember, the SITP Lutheran church printed in its bulletin every week the invitation to communion to </span></span><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">all Christians “who share our Biblical faith and understanding of the sacrament.” It does not specify baptism, confirmation, membership of an LCMS church, what the "understanding of the sacrament" involves, or any other requirement. It states only that if someone has questions about this requirement, they should ask an elder. </span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">This is all i'm going to say for today. I'm sure i'll have much more to say, but i will stop here. </span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">30</span></span>Kathrynhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03272307621143522274noreply@blogger.com7