I found Sunday School pretty boring as a child. None of the other girls in the class liked me. The different mothers took turns with the class (although i don't remember my mother having that class). Largely we took turns reading a couple of paragraphs from the SS "Quarterly." That Quarterly was provided by whatever independent Baptist whatever that church belonged to provided for the churches affiliated with them.
When i was between 11 and 13, there was a lesson i'll never forget. I don't remember any particular scripture being linked to the lesson, it may have been Romans 8.28. (Although Jeremiah 1.5 and Psalm 139.13 talk about God knowing the writer "from my mother's womb" and God "knitting me together.")
"And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose." Romans 8.28 (NIV)
Nevertheless, the passage / paragraph i had to read told us, in detail, that God chose my parents for me, knew they would be the perfect family for me, chose them deliberately. There was much more to it than this, but i found the whole thing really offensive. As my family was at least dysfunctional and severely lacking in love and understanding, i don't see how i could possibly like such an opinion. And that is what it was, someone's opinion / interpretation of these scriptures.
I read "my paragraph" with a great deal of contempt in my voice, i was angry. But i did look up to see the response from the teacher, and she was angry. I "ruined" her class. We never had any discussion of these opinions unless we were reiterating the same opinion.
From that time, i pretty much struggled with all that i was taught in that church. (And i wish i'd become Anglican / Episcopal at that point.)
I know many, many, many people who tell me over and over again, "Everything happens for a reason." And, "God promises to guide our every step." And, that God promises to give me the "desires of my heart."
This doesn't begin to match my belief system and experience. I don't argue anymore, although if they are persistent enough i will try to explain. Telling someone who has been raped or abused that "everything happens for a reason" is simply cruel. (IS EVERYTHING THAT HAPPENS FOR A REASON? - LINK) Telling someone that God guides their every step when they have made some incredibly poor choices and the consequences for that are severe is a real questionable thing to say. Telling ME that God will give me the "desires of my heart" when my desires are to have children, drive again, be more functional, be well again. The children thing is never going to happen, and this is beyond cruel.
This is a really long discussion that i've been approaching on and off for years now. The idea that everything that happens has a "reason from God" runs in conflict with free will. "Everything for a reason" implies "caused by God."
I've long had a hard time with people who claim their beautiful weather for a picnic was in response to their prayer, while nearby farmers are praying for desperately needed rain, or some child somewhere is desperately praying that they won't be abused anymore, or that their parents won't get drunk or get divorced.
My Christian college taught us that "God's will is for His people to be Christlike." AND that nearly all the promises that people like to claim - as an individual - were actually promises made to a nation, the people of Israel. And that almost always making claims for ourselves on promises made to the nation of Israel are scriptures taken out of context.
I believe in God, our creator. I believe he sent Jesus. I also believe that the majority of what churches teach these days are more in line with the Pharisees of Jesus' day than with what Jesus came to bring to us. Churches (like our gov't) like to control people and using fear or other manipulative methods work in their favor.
I'm coming to believe that many of the passages in the Bible used to create fear or the threat of "doom" are actually warnings. For example, telling Christians not to be "unequally yoked" (married, or say, business partners) with unbelievers is a warning that things are not likely to work out in the long run.
There is plenty more to say, i think, but that is all i can think of at the moment.
(IS IT TRUE THAT EVERYTHING HAPPENS FOR A REASON? - LINK with scriptures that disagrees with my view)
When i was between 11 and 13, there was a lesson i'll never forget. I don't remember any particular scripture being linked to the lesson, it may have been Romans 8.28. (Although Jeremiah 1.5 and Psalm 139.13 talk about God knowing the writer "from my mother's womb" and God "knitting me together.")
"And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose." Romans 8.28 (NIV)
Nevertheless, the passage / paragraph i had to read told us, in detail, that God chose my parents for me, knew they would be the perfect family for me, chose them deliberately. There was much more to it than this, but i found the whole thing really offensive. As my family was at least dysfunctional and severely lacking in love and understanding, i don't see how i could possibly like such an opinion. And that is what it was, someone's opinion / interpretation of these scriptures.
I read "my paragraph" with a great deal of contempt in my voice, i was angry. But i did look up to see the response from the teacher, and she was angry. I "ruined" her class. We never had any discussion of these opinions unless we were reiterating the same opinion.
From that time, i pretty much struggled with all that i was taught in that church. (And i wish i'd become Anglican / Episcopal at that point.)
I know many, many, many people who tell me over and over again, "Everything happens for a reason." And, "God promises to guide our every step." And, that God promises to give me the "desires of my heart."
This doesn't begin to match my belief system and experience. I don't argue anymore, although if they are persistent enough i will try to explain. Telling someone who has been raped or abused that "everything happens for a reason" is simply cruel. (IS EVERYTHING THAT HAPPENS FOR A REASON? - LINK) Telling someone that God guides their every step when they have made some incredibly poor choices and the consequences for that are severe is a real questionable thing to say. Telling ME that God will give me the "desires of my heart" when my desires are to have children, drive again, be more functional, be well again. The children thing is never going to happen, and this is beyond cruel.
This is a really long discussion that i've been approaching on and off for years now. The idea that everything that happens has a "reason from God" runs in conflict with free will. "Everything for a reason" implies "caused by God."
I've long had a hard time with people who claim their beautiful weather for a picnic was in response to their prayer, while nearby farmers are praying for desperately needed rain, or some child somewhere is desperately praying that they won't be abused anymore, or that their parents won't get drunk or get divorced.
My Christian college taught us that "God's will is for His people to be Christlike." AND that nearly all the promises that people like to claim - as an individual - were actually promises made to a nation, the people of Israel. And that almost always making claims for ourselves on promises made to the nation of Israel are scriptures taken out of context.
I believe in God, our creator. I believe he sent Jesus. I also believe that the majority of what churches teach these days are more in line with the Pharisees of Jesus' day than with what Jesus came to bring to us. Churches (like our gov't) like to control people and using fear or other manipulative methods work in their favor.
I'm coming to believe that many of the passages in the Bible used to create fear or the threat of "doom" are actually warnings. For example, telling Christians not to be "unequally yoked" (married, or say, business partners) with unbelievers is a warning that things are not likely to work out in the long run.
There is plenty more to say, i think, but that is all i can think of at the moment.
(IS IT TRUE THAT EVERYTHING HAPPENS FOR A REASON? - LINK with scriptures that disagrees with my view)
