Thoughts on a Sunday Morning

Did you know that if you click on your own profile, whatever location you listed for yourself is a link.  If you click on that link, it will tell you the other people who blog from your area.  Now, maybe not something you want to do if your location is "Southern California," but in a small place like Big Bear (& permutations such as "Big Bear Lake" & "Big Bear City") there are only about 100 blogs listed.  So, curious, i visited them.  (Tho i've just discovered that if you spell out "California" you find a different listing, meaning more.)

I found a couple that i'd like to follow.  But what surprised me more is that there are so many that have one post or 4 or 10 & then nothing.  And quite a few who have none at all!  A lot of the "bloggers" are real estate agents.  And one really surprising fellow with about 8 different profiles has 10-25 different blogs at each profile.  And most of those blogs had ONE post!  I guess rather than having continunity in one blog, he feels each post deserves a blog of its own.  

I guess some folks start a blog & then discover that it isn't their thing.  Duane started a blog (Croggled) long before i even knew what a blog was.  He has a total of four posts, one that i wrote.


My point?  Oh, just some thoughts when i realized it has been a long time since last i posted.  


Two weekends ago, when my ILs were here, we went to the Catholic Church.  It turned out that it was the day in their liturgical calendar that celebrates the "Assumption of Mary."  Say what?  All the hymns were ones celebrating Mary.  My Catholic ILs & my Catholic-raised husband were not aware of this church doctrine.  It states that Mary died, was buried, was raised again, & was taken up directly into heaven.  AND it became official church canon in 1950.  SAY WHAT? ! ! ! 


So, when we got home i did some research into the "Mariology" of the Catholic church.  The belief that was finally canonized in 1950 had been part of church tradition since the 3rd or 4th century.  However, folks, non-traditional church info - meaning factual rather than an evolving trend - began in the first century, not long after Jesus' death & resurrection.  Frankly, after listening to the songs & attribution to Mary & checking the church doctrine, the Catholic church - or at least the ones that choose to worship this way - are in great danger of putting Mary on equal footing, or even higher, than Jesus.  


Duane tells me that in catechism, he was taught that Mary is the only person ever born without sin.  It was about that point that Duane rejected Catholic tradition, although he continued to attend that church for many years.


Frankly, i've a lot to say that is positive about the Catholic church.  My friend Jessica (His Scribe) is doing a series (rather off & on) about our "reconcilable differences" with the Catholic church, looking at the ways we are similar.  But i'm rather taken aback by this Mariology.  Too much for me.


I do believe that it is important for us as Christians to love others - INCLUDING CHRISTIANS!  So often it seems that Christianity is so very divisive instead of presenting to loving image of Jesus i believe we are intended to reflect.  I've long thought of Christianity as being a mirror.  We don't have an image in & of ourselves, but we can reflect the glory of God.  In doing so we can shine a light into dark places.  But it seems that mirror has been shattered & we are reflecting bits of God's glory, but not a true image.  I can't pick up one shard & say, "This is what it is like to reflect God's glory.  It takes the full mirror to reflect the full glory.  Perhaps the day is coming when God will repair that mirror.


That was one of my problems with our former Lutheran church.  The pastor was so sure that his church & only his church had the full mirror & none of the others had any of it.  They were all in "error."  But i think that God is so much more than we can comprehend that we are ALL in error in some way or another.  So we need to treat one another with kindness & love, & recognize weakness & not tear down those that struggle.  I know we've had the discussion about the Catholic church before.  I do think that perhaps it is too easy to get caught up in Catholic doctrine, dogma, tradition, & theology & lose the way to Christ.  BUT i think that is a possibility in ALL churches.  We tend to get caught in doctrine, dogma, tradition, & theology.  Granted, some more than others, but those trappings tend to overshadow the simple message of Christ crucified & risen, the message that God sent his Son to be our bridge.  


Too many people, in the church & out of it, tend to want to skip the bridge & see if they can't jump the gulf themselves.  Some churches tend to water down the message of Christ by placing a lot of emphasis on rules & regulations, making us think that we can earn our own way.  But that is not the message that Jesus brought & lived out.  


Ok, much can be said on that, but i'm done.  Hopefully i made my point.


We attended the "other" Lutheran church last week.  We like it.  It is warm & friendly.  But we are not at the point of wanting to join a church, even on a regular basis.


I don't handle "authority" or politics well.  When i worked hospital, i found them to be very political.  I tried to make sure that i worked mostly when administration & management was NOT on premises (evening shifts).  I liked to do my job & do it well without being sucked into the political management bull that often got in the way of doing a good job.  I did my best when i worked 3 different hospitals part-time.  I was able to go & work with folks i liked doing work i liked.  I heard their stories & complaints.  When i left at the end of the shift my work was done or passed on to the next shift (very good for a procrastinator like myself).  I also got to leave the office politics behind.  Walk away.  Because it didn't effect me.  The worst mistake i ever made was to go full-time at one hospital.  Because then i was in the same mire day after day & it DID effect me.  

I'm feeling the same way about joining a church at this time.  People are frequently wishing us luck or blessings in "finding a home," but at this point that is NOT what we are looking for.  I have too much difficulty with too many of the doctrines in the churches.  If we visit on a weekend & they preach the Gospel, then i'm not involved in their doctrine or politics.  Now, i know that this sounds like i'm copping out, but it is simply where i am at the moment.  We seek fellowship with other believers & to worship in a church that preaches the Gospel.  But i do NOT want to get involved in doctrine/politics.  If we find a church that needs help on an issue, we will try to help.  If we can join in an ecumenical group that is trying to _____________ (feed the hungry, house the homeless, provide) we will likely try to help.  It is not that we are not willing to work, but that we are not willing to align with a particular doctrine at this point.  


Truth is too, we've not made many friends here with whom to socialize.  We may see folks in a restaurant or at the store & chat with them, but that is not, to me, a satisfying relationship.  I'm hoping that by going to several different churches we can make some friends that cut across denominational ties.  Maybe that is why i'm "seeking" Big Bear bloggers, too.  :)


Have a blessed Sunday. 





39 

Some Thoughts

This has been rather a difficult week & i never responded to the comments on my last post.  I so appreciate comments.  I try to respond to them, but don't always manage.


For Mr. Geezer, commenting on the Catholic church, i appreciate your point of view.  I understand what you are saying.  It is, largely, the view my own mother had of that church.


However, God uses all things to draw folks to him.  In my blog reading i've come across several bloggers of the the Roman Catholic flavor, & the ones i choose to follow have terrific faith.  In fact, quite frankly, i've much to learn from them.  The depths of their faith is sometimes astounding to me.  My own husband (not a blogger, he's got 4 total posts at his blog, i wrote one) is Catholic-raised & has terrific faith.  When he ran up against some of these extra-biblical doctrines, he questioned the teacher.  When he was given inadequate answers, he rejected the doctrines but continued his faith.

I very much appreciate your point:  

Catholics need to be evangelized. They need to hear the true Gospel. They need to hear that they are not made right before God by being in a church, or by being baptized, but by receiving Christ . . . 

However, i believe this to be true for ALL churches.  Not just Catholics fall into this trap that believing that "being good" or following doctrine, laws, rules or other ordinances set by a church will "save" them.   That said, i do believe that God calls his people & that God can use all translations of the Bible to do so.  Yes, some translations can have certain slants we may not agree with, but God can still use it.  His Word does not return void.  


Also, not just Catholics fall into the problem of having doctrine that is unscriptural.  Just about every church out there tends to put more emphasis on one point of scripture over another one.  Sometimes it is a mild diversion, sometimes it is a dangerous one.  


We have, i believe, much to thank the Catholic church for.  From the beginning of Christianity we had only the Eastern Orthodox & Roman Catholic churches.  The Catholic church maintained our scriptures & teachings for 1500 years.  Yes, much was done in the name of the church that was unholy, to say the least, & their doctrine took a turn that most Protestants do not accept.  But the scripture was still there, waiting for us to return to it & study what was said.  And it was there because of the Catholic church maintaining it thru the years.  


I don't draw lines anymore saying "This church is 'Christian' & this church is not."  I try to learn from the teaching.  Everyone needs to be "evangelized" even if they grew up in a Baptist church.  It is too easy to miss God's "narrow path" even if we have found some other narrow path that seems right.


Amrita, as always, thank you for your gentle comments & loving heart.  :)


We attended the First Baptist church this last week.  In general, we like it pretty well, tho to be honest, as much as i enjoy the Pastor, 60+ minutes of sermon is too much for me.  But one thing he said this past week that Duane & i both struggled over was on "The fear of the Lord."  He equated fear with trust.  We just don't see that.  This pastor said, "You trust most the one you fear most."  We find a lot of holes in that thought.  


I fear our government a lot, but i don't trust it at all.  


I fear an out of control gang, or police department, or shark, but i don't trust it.


In reading other blogs on faith & doubt, those that struggle with those issues the most seem to be the ones who came to be a Christian due to their fear of hell or of condemnation.  


So i just don't see this point at all.  But i've decided that i don't mind sitting in a sermon where i disagree with someone.  If the pastor had not said this, i think we would have walked away saying, "That was a good sermon," but not remembered any of it.  This stuck it in my mind to study on at a later date.  


I wonder if the word "fear" as in "the fear of the Lord" is different than the way we use the term fear today?



38

Conversation

Our dear friend JT was here for a while yesterday.  He lives a couple of hours away.  He came up to help Duane take down the tree that is half gone & needs to come down.  They didn't do it, they decided they need equipment (rented) like a lift to work the top of the tree separately.  Without that, there would be a good chance that taking down the tree would also take down our front upstairs deck.  


So we got to visit.  



He was raised Catholic (like Duane) & his wife Protestant (like me).  They have been searching for a church.  He feels drawn back toward the Catholic church, but is having real issues with it.  He spoke to the priest in the parish where they live.  He would have so much to have to do before he could return to the Catholic church.  His wife had been married before & so she would have to go thru annulment on her previous marriage & they would have to be remarried in the Catholic church.  The priest told JT that he would "confess him" but "Only face to face.  I have to see your eyes to be sure you are sincere" ! ! ! 


His wife is confused by the veneration of Mary & praying to the saints.  



It seems to me that it is human tendency - & this comes thru so clearly in churches - that we say "This is good" or that or this or whatever, & we slap a coat of varnish on it & call it done.  But that is NOT how life is, nor do i believe it to be what God intends for the Christian life to be.  


If we have a truly living faith we can't slap varnish on it, or allow it to become petrified, & claim, "This is what God wants of me in my life."  Or worse, "This is what God wants of all Christians."   



This is not an exact analogy, but think of a tree & the way it grows.  It is not usually symmetrical.  It is influenced by the availability of water, & how the wind blows.  Now, we can make all the trees look alike.  Southern California especially is well known for extreme pruning.  Often a tree is difficult if not impossible to distinguish the species from the shape of it because the pruning causes it to look nothing like a naturally-grown tree.  I do believe that God does allow for some pruning in our lives.  But if we followed the pruning of man (the church), we would all be identical, perfectly symmetrical, show trees.  I do not believe that is what God would call us to be.  



It is stated in the Bible that we are all different members of the body with different jobs to do.  But sometimes i think that the different churches are all trying to force us into a mold where we will be identical members. 




The Catholic church has a long, long history (& much of it very ugly) & what has happened over time, i think, is that the different things they have "added" have become petrified.  



I had a piece of petrified wood as a child.  Wood turned to stone thru mineralization.  It was fascinating.  But even if it had still been part of the tree, it was no longer living.  I think that often the church is in danger of falling prey to this.  



Paul, in his first letter to the Corinthians that he wished the unmarried to remain so, but he did not command it.  But by the 4th century, the Church made it a requirement that ordained priests be single.  They took what Paul suggested & petrified it into law.  By doing so, they condemned some people.  Some people may have felt that they were called to priesthood, but not to celibacy.  To require this of them meant that they had to force themselves into a mold that God had not required.  



The Catholic church has done the same with dogmas of Mary & of the transubstantiation (bread & wine becoming body & blood).   What is more, because of the belief around this second dogma, for many years the laity did not receive wine in communion.  I've heard two reasons for this:  One, wine may have been difficult to obtain in some climates.  Two, there was the fear that the laity would spill the "holy blood of Christ."  This largely is changed again, & most communicants receive both bread & wine.  But if the reason was the second one, again, man has petrified something & made it so "holy" that it i out of reach for the majority of folks.  



Now, i'm picking on the Catholic church here, largely because these examples are easy for me to lay out & because that church has the longest history.  But essentially all denominational churches have done something similar.  When they state, "These are the important things to us" they are in a sense petrifying their stance.  This isn't all bad.  It is good to say, "This is what i believe."  



But there are other churches that take this elsewhere.  The Southern Baptist convention, when i was in college (about 1992?) split because there was a branch of the church that was putting much emphasis on what would be a social gospel - that of trying to help people eat & have shelter.  The staunchly conservative part of the church wasn't concerned about this - they felt the $$ should go toward more missionaries & building programs.  (This, i am sure is a very biased & simplified version of that split.)  But what really hit me when i was reading about this at the time, was that soon after that split the Southern Baptist convention was in danger of having another split, this time over the ratifying that a Southern Baptist had to believe in a 24 hour day, 7 day creation.  Legalism.  Rigidity.  No room left for any question or doubt.  No room left for humanity.  


It seems to me that the Council of Nicaea did all this work for us in 325 with the Nicene Creed:

We believe in one God, the Father, the Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all that is, seen and unseen.

We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father,
God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God, begotten, not made, of one Being with the Father.
Through him all things were made.
For us and for our salvation he came down from heaven,
by the power of the Holy Spirit he became incarnate from the Virgin Mary, and was made man.
For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate; he suffered death and was buried.
On the third day he rose again in accordance with the Scriptures; he ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead, and his kingdom will have no end.

We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life, who proceeds from the Father and the Son.
With the Father and the Son he is worshiped and glorified. 
He has spoken through the Prophets.

We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church.
We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.
We look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come.
Amen.

I guess i will never understand why we need a doctrine beyond this.  Many doctrines revolve around things like what will happen, exactly, in "the End Times" & did Noah really take 2 of each of the animals on the Ark, & is Mary sinless (so that she would be an appropriate vessel to mother our Lord). 


My question, does it really matter?  Won't God work this out to his glory & we will know what we need to know in his presence?  Why should we fight about it now?


Much is being said currently about Anne Rice distancing herself from Christianity.  I often would like to do that myself.  There is so much done in the name of Christ which i truly dislike.  I'm very much outside of what is called "Christian culture" & i didn't actually know that Anne Rice had professed Christianity until this began hitting the blogs.  All i knew was that she'd written vampire books that i've never read.  


The best i've read on this subject so far is Matt from The Church of No People:

. . .  So as much as I’d like to follow Anne and quit Christianity, while conveniently retaining my faith, I can’t.  (And really, neither can Anne.)  Christ died for people who annoy the living hell out of me, and it does me no good to dwell on how much some people annoy me.  Christ even died for people who would use him for personal gain, and I have nothing to say about it.  I hate saying that.  But I don’t get to say who Jesus has saved, and I don’t get to stop calling myself a Christian. . . Really, almost all of the pastors and Christians who irritate me are the ones getting all the attention.  They are the ones teaching false gospels and protesting funerals, and generally being hateful, and maybe they represent an incredibly small minority of us, and it just gets blown up bigger than it is.  I think I’m annoyed the most at Christians because my faith is the most important thing in my life.  If it takes such a small number to create the problem, maybe there’s enough of us, the other Christians, to be the solution. . . 

More is written there, but this is the part i really like & that convicted me.  Much as i'd like to walk away from the title "Christian" it isn't an option.  He also said in this post, somewhere, that the term "Christian" was a pejorative when it first began to be used.  It still is, of course, but i tend to think that we've changed the reason it is an insult, & not for the better.  


He also wrote the post, "Christians of a Dying Breed" that was good & started much interesting debate in the comments.  


Then there is this vid:  Reasons Why People Don't Go to Church


I'm not promoting this last one.  I'm afraid to say i had hoped better things of it.  Maybe i'm missing something, but it seemed to be a very shallow rendering of why some people are no longer part of a church.  There are reasons, good reasons, serious reasons why even older Christians no longer feel the church to be filling a need or even being relevant to their lives.  We are struggling with some of those very reasons.  


I do feel that for me the answer is to no longer look to fill my needs so much as to find a place where i can work.  Frankly, i've lived much of my life in depression & depression is little more than looking inward.  God has healed so much of that & i believe it is time for me to look outward & try to do more.  Have been working on that for a few years now.  However, that is something i find difficult & it rather backfired on us at the Lutheran church for the whole reason we joined that church was so that we could serve. 



37