The New Faith

In [a] sense, very few people today ever trust in god. Very few people ever voluntarily put themselves in a position where, if their prayers are unanswered, or if god otherwise fails to act, they will suffer a physical or financial harm. Sure, they will pray, but it will always be in addition to doing whatever common sense, or science, tells them to do. This renders the outcome of the prayers completely irrelevant . . .



For example, whenever anybody is sick, they would unlikely be so foolhardy as to put their money on god in lieu of medical science. They may pray on the side, as a harmless, cost-free way of doubling down, but no way in hell would a rational person ignore their surgeon in favor of just prayer. Such rational people do not “trust in god.” His existence or nonexistence is rendered irrelevant by the medical advice they follow. 

InGod We (Do Not) Trust

An atheist wrote this, so i suppose it is not surprising that the writer equivocates trust in God with being mindless. But i do think they have a point about trust and science. In my opinion, most Christians these days have replaced trust in God with trust in medical science.

Maybe this wouldn't be bad if there was something to trust in medical science. The fact is, however, that most of what passes as “medical science” is a mishmash of politically driven interest. “Medicine” as it passes today is big business. The fact that most drug studies are highly biased for the drug company and are tainted at every step of the process is overlooked by the very people who are suppose to be protecting the consumers. Properly prescribed medications kill over 100,000 people a year, and conventional medicine kills over 700,000 people a year – all legally. But you never hear of this. You DO hear on the rare occasion that something alternative creates a problem. That becomes big news. The media will tell you that alternative treatments are not safe.  They are claiming that Steve Jobs was killed because he used alternative medicine. A friend wrote (Mellowsong's entry) that she felt that SJ didn't properly use either alternative or conventional medicine, and that was the problem. I think this is an accurate assessment.

My indictment of the above article written by an atheist is that the writer seems to put as much blind trust in science as he accuses Christians of having in God.  His faith in science is misplaced, i believe.

I do not think Christians should be mindless. There are some conventional treatments which i suppose are needed, especially if the person is not willing to make changes in diet and environment that will help to fight their disease.  But this means the person in question needs to be responsible to research treatments and not blindly trust “My doctor says . . . ” First off, doctors are not some great, infallible prophet. Second, most of the research in which they trust has been skewed and should not be trusted.  Third, in this day of easy access to alternatives, this is much easier to do.  It is hard, i admit, because there is so much available to read that you can be overwhelmed by the amount of info.  I don't think this excuses us from being responsible for our own decisions and choosing not to capitulate to the decision of a doctor. 

We have thousands of years of experience with natural, God-given plants, minerals, and vitamins in this world which treat illness and heal. But this doesn't make big money for the doctors and hospitals – or the drug companies. Instead, the scientists play with these natural things until they can create a synthetic substitute that they can then patent and sell. While these synthetic substances do seem to work more quickly than the natural one (and in our culture especially, “quick” relief is valued above all else), these synthetic drugs have a myriad of problems. First off, our body does not utilize them as well as the natural substance and as a result, the synthetic has a host of severe reactions and side effects.  These can be sudden and quick (such as anaphylactic shock) or long term (such as muscle weakness or liver damage).

One example: There is evidence that calcium fluoride can help build strong teeth – if taken in very limited doses. The industry making fertilizer (it was created in other manufacturing processes as well) created a huge surplus of very toxic sodium fluoride or other related fluorides. This type of fluoride is found nowhere in nature. But the theory (studies to back this were never completed because the results were so contrary to the theory) was that if calcium fluoride would be good, sodium fluoride would be as well. The industries could save huge amounts of money by selling this substance to the water districts and thus not have to deal with this very toxic chemical waste. However – it is still a chemical waste and if the water districts spill this stuff while they are adding it to the water, a Hazmat team has to be called in to handle the disposal of it. We want this in our water? And yet, the majority of Americans believe it when they are told that fluoride is healthy for us.

The American Medical Association was created with the specific goal to weed out all competition to their interests.  Heroic medicine was already in place at that time, but the goals of the AMA were to promote it over any other system. (Don't bother with Wikipedia for the definition of “Heroic medicine.” Their answer is much too incomplete. You could try this Healthwebsite.)  Supposedly, the days of heroic medicine - doing much damage to the patient in the meantime - are past, but in my mind much of conventional medicine – especially cancer treatments – are nothing but an updated version of heroic medicine.

So, my big question is why on earth would Christians blindly follow the advice of conventional medical doctors – whose track record in treating patients is really pathetic – instead of researching all possibilities? I strongly believe that nearly all illness we see these days is directly a result of the processed foods people eat, our polluted water and environment, the chemicals used in our homes and workplaces, and the medications so easily taken by people without much thought. It is time to start living as our creator designed us to live, with the good food and water provided, rather than trusting an industry to feed us or treat disease.

I think it strange that the Church (in early days it would have been the Catholic Church as there was no other) chose to fear natural medicine and healing and claim it "witchcraft" and in time has instead chosen to advocate current allopathic, heroic medicine. 

This is near and dear to my heart right now as i personally know of three people who are placing their lives in the hands of these medical folks. It is hard for me to bear.

Trust

Duane and i both like SciFi & some fantasy tv/movies.

 I've not watched Smallville from the beginning.  Shoot, i didn't even have a tv when that program began.  Essentially, i missed the high school years of the program.


This is the last season for the program to run.  We were watching an episode last night.


Background:  Chloe, a friend of Clark's and many of the other characters, disappeared a while back without giving her friends any explanation.  In this episode, she returns but her actions are confusing and it looks as if she is trying to harm her friends.  Her actions become more clear as the show progresses, but each of the friends has to make a decision whether or not they will trust her.  Clark really struggles with this.

I find this ironic (and the writers probably wrote it with this intention) because throughout the history of the program Clark has often done things without explanation to his friends, expecting them to trust him.


At the end of the program, Clark, realizing how much trust he has required from his friends over time, questions Chloe.  He asks how she was able to place so much trust in him.  (My recap of this here may not be exact, it went by quickly.)  At times Clark lied to his friends, believing they were safer not to know the truth in some cases.  Chloe often knew that Clark was lying.  He questions how she could trust him regardless, and her response was that she was often able to see thru the lies, knowing he cared for her (and others) and was trying to protect them.


She finishes by saying, "That is the essence of trust in a person, isn't it, that you don't require them to give an explanation?"

I've long been meaning to write about the last book in the Harry Potter series.  I recently re-read them.  (I know a lot of Christian folks reject these books due to their subject matter.  I have a lot to say on this, but that's a post for another day.)


Thru the books, one of Harry's mentors is Professor Dumbledore.  At times this mentor has asked things of Harry without explanation.  In one of the seven books, Harry has essentially no contact with his mentor, and when he tries to question him at times, Dumbledore ignores the attempt.  At the end of that book he explains to Harry that he felt that keeping a distance would protect Harry.  But of course, that raised a lot of resentment in Harry from the misunderstanding (of why this mentor would do such a thing).  

In the final book, after learning more of his mentor, the info Harry gleans seems to be really contradictory and some of the choices the mentor has made seems to hold little regard for Harry's own life, Harry himself has to make a decision.


Harry really wrestles with the situation.  And ultimately, he decides to follow the path he is on, the path set before him by his mentor, even tho much of it does not make sense to him.


Of course, i have much more to say on this, but i'm out of time for now.


Let's just say that my course is to explore this further.  Sara's faith makes much more sense to me now, because she trusts that God is good and faithful, even if she doesn't have an explanation for all that has happened to her.






45

Watering

This is not a new or unique idea.  What is watered grows, what doesn't get water eventually dies.

I'm a very challenged gardener.  I frequently forget to water.  I have a number of dead plants in my kitchen, currently, and about 4 that are doing very well.  I also have an ivy plant in the bathroom that is doing quite well.  I water it twice a week when i take a shower.  


In my faith, my belief in God, i frequently have doubts.  A few months ago i probably would have said, "struggle with doubt," but the truth is, i have begun to embrace the doubt.  Tho i am sure there are Christians who do not doubt, it is hard for me to imagine a thinking person NOT having doubts.  The world is just so contradictory.  There are just too many questions.  Many of the "promises" that Christians claim are taken out of context or do not come true.  How can i not doubt the nature of a God that says so many of the weird and bizarre things in the Old Testament.  Even many of the things Jesus said are difficult to grasp.  


I read a number of different blogs, many of which are Christian or written by folks who are Christian.  A few are about struggling with, accepting, or fighting doubts.  One of these is O Me of Little Faith.  There is also a book by the same title.  I've spoken of it before.  I would like to write about it more extensively, but haven't gotten around to doing so.  


Now, i know in the eyes of some folks, including our former pastor, doubt would usher me straight into hell.  I don't believe that.  But this is a discussion for another time.


The fact is, i have faith, such as it is.  It doesn't look like the faith of an Evangelical or Fundamental Christian.  Those particular branches of Christianity espouse things and do things that make me very uncomfortable.  But i have faith all the same.  It gives me some comfort.  It is not the type of faith that will blow away all doubt.  I think my faith will have to co-exist with doubt indefinitely.  


However, it recently occurred to me that i can choose my focus.  If i spend too much time at blogs that espouse doubt, then that is where my thoughts will be.  Blogs that embrace doubt are not harmful, they can (for me) be very helpful.  But anything that dwells too much on seeking out more doubt, more negativity, will have too much effect on me in a negative manner.  There is lots of research literature in psychology stating what a strong effect our minds, thoughts, and beliefs have on our physical and mental well being.


(BTW, if i am already reading your blog, i'm not talking about dropping it!  I'm only speaking of not further seeking that which will make me doubt, scientific data, etc.)

The fact is, none of us know.  That is where faith comes in.   People can claim to know, but they are not able to provide any kind of proof that would stand up in scientific testing.  People can claim an experience, but that is not something reproducible, nor is it something that anyone else can experience with them.  


I find, for me, that having some kind of faith, even if it also embraces and accepts doubt, is comforting.  Certainly there are many scriptures in the Bible that encourage living in a way that will bring peace:  Love your neighbor, being a peacemaker, being meek, pure of heart, or merciful.  It seems to be these are only negatives in the way we sometimes translate (or preach about).  I think that living as a follower of Jesus is the way to have a life that is more about peace and caring about others and being less self-involved.  Luke 12:34  For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also. (Although, i recognize that if i lived in a place that persecuted Christians my faith would either have to grow to something more and become stronger, or die.)


Self-involvement is natural, of course, but when taken to an extreme it seems to be the root of most mental illness.  


Too much of the Bible is incomprehensible, too.  Except it does seem that Jesus is telling us that the fairness by which we measure is not very important to God.  Look at the parable of the workers in the vineyard (Matthew 20).  All i can do with something like this is to trust that the God who is so beyond me is a God who will care, even when things seem unfair to me.


When i focus too much on things that encourage severe doubt (which seems to go hand in hand with unhappiness for me), it does make sense to me to remember:  


1 Corinthians 1:25  For the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men.

And,  Proverbs 3:5-7  Trust in the Lord with all your heart, and do not lean on your own understanding.  In all your ways acknowledge him,and he will make straight your paths.  Be not wise in your own eyes;  fear the Lord, and turn away from evil.


While i am not stupid, i am not terribly smart, either.  I think accepting that there is much i don't understand, and choosing not to believe my own brain is the ultimate to make decisions and understand everything leaves me the room to believe and trust in God, even if he is incomprehensible to me.  I've a feeling that all my own "wisdom" is pretty foolish.


There are so many things in our culture, our churches, our nation, our world, our universe, which make little sense to me.  Trying to make sense of them makes it worse!  It is comforting to me to believe that even if God seems unfair, unjust, and just simply weird, a God who created us and sent his son to be our bridge to him probably is incomprehensible.  That is where my faith comes in.  I choose to believe that i can't understand because it is beyond me and that all the unfairness in our world will make sense in the next, if it is even important enough to think of there.  And if i'm wrong (about the next world), well, i won't know, will i?  Or, i'll deal with that when i have to.

For me, it doesn't hurt to focus on these verses:


Philippians 4:8  Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is commendable, if there is any excellence, if there is anything worthy of praise, think about these things.

I can choose which plant to water, doubt or faith.  I can choose to focus on positive rather than negative.  I've a feeling that when i water one, the other is getting some of that water, too.  But i think i want to focus on watering faith as much as possible, and accept that doubt grows there as well.  But i don't want to focus on what would make the doubt grow to the point it chokes out the faith i have.


(All these scriptures make it sound like i'm quite the Bible scholar, but it isn't true.  I don't actually do a lot of Bible reading, most of these i did a Google search, tho i did have the basics in my head to know what to search for.)



43

Chapter 2 Turtles All the Way Down

I'm not going to "review" the book O Me of Little Faith by Jason Boyett.  Frankly, i think the book so good, all i can say is:  Buy it; read it.  I don't think any "review" i write would do it justice.  Jason is an excellent & intelligent writer.  Read.The.Book.  If you're not sure you want to read a book on doubt, get the book & read the last chapter first.  If you don't find it uplifting & helpful, well, enough said.  He doesn't come up with reasons not to doubt; he has fine reasons why doubt & faith walk hand in hand.  For many of us, at least.  

Check out his blog.  I recommend this post on The Problem with Asking Hard Questions.  The comment section is excellent, too.  (I will admit, however, that as much as i like the site, sometimes reading "doubt" day after day is a bit too much for me.  Rather like looking at the glass as half empty too many days in a row.)


Obviously, the book had much in it which resonated with me.  I wouldn't recommend it otherwise.  I will be posting on some highlights that touched me.


Frankly, i'd very much like to send G a copy, very anonymously.  (I don't think he'd read it coming from me.)  I think he must be struggling a lot with doubt to preach against it (& fear & other emotion) so strongly.  


In some ways i think my faith has grown to be quite strong.  In other ways, not so much.  I know a lot of people who see God in every moment of their lives.  They walk him, talk him, regurgitate scripture every moment, pray continually, see him everywhere, & refuse to take credit for choice they make (good ones, i mean) in order to give God the credit & glory.  I struggle with that thinking & mentality.  Can't they see that they made a choice to do X, Y or Z, even if they ultimately give God the glory?  And because this type of life/thought seems to be a "Christian standard" way of thinking, i can't help but wonder, "What is wrong with me?"


Anyway, in Chapter 2, Jason presents some of the arguments which "prove" God.  The Ontological Argument, the Transcendental Argument, the Teleological Argument, the Anthropic Argument.  (He covers them well enough in the book, but Google them if you wish.)  I studied some of these in Apologetics in college.   I find that my faith is based, in a large part, on what i would call a variation of the Transcendental Argument.  That one is that ethics & morals could not have evolved; they require God.  (Oh, go look it up!)  


I think that man/men/mankind/people/folks could not be good, probably would not know what "good" is, were there not a God.  I've never believed in "total depravity" for if that were so, the human race would have killed itself off long ago.  People would not have children & raise them; they would have children & eat them.  Amoral behaviors & wars would have killed off all the rest. 


I am not arguing about whether sin is real, or that there are truly evil people in the world.  It is, there are; that is obvious.  I'm not arguing against the idea that we needed Jesus to be our "bridge" to a relationship with God.  I'm not saying that people have the ability to "reach a divine state" apart from the grace of God.


What i am saying is that people know moral values.  They know "good."  A mother has a child & 99% of the time (i believe) falls in love with that child & wants all things good for him/her.  A father wants to protect that child as well.  Other folks admire the baby (they don't think, "Dinner!").  (Now, as the child grows, that ability to have patience can be another matter altogether! Oh, & yes, i know those feelings serve an "evolutionary purpose" - but that doesn't really sway me.)

People, all kinds of people - Christians, Jewish, Hindu, Buddhists, Muslim, "religious folk," Wiccan,  agnostics, atheists, non-spiritual, the lot - have the ability to show compassion, do "random acts of kindness," & come to the aid of their fellow human-beings, nature, animals, where they see a need.  I believe that is so because there is within us still part of the "image of God" & the "knowledge of good & evil" which tells us when our behaviors are good or not good.  We also know that we've fallen short of the impossible "perfect."

I know a few atheists personally.  They are "good," moral, ethical people.  In some ways they are much more consistent than many Christians i know.  Why would this be so?  Why would they not be "out for whatever they can get"?  Why are they proud of being good?

I believe it is a piece of the human race:  We know when we have done less than the best, when what we have done is not perfect.  We seem to be, the majority of society, motivated to aspire to be good.  I don't think society would survive were it not true of the majority, regardless of their beliefs. 

Now, i'm not saying that this argument would sway anyone else.  I'm saying, it works for me.  I also fall in line with some of the other arguments.  I like the argument of a designer (the Teleological Argument).  When i see the complexity of the world, it seems to me that someone must have done it - & is quite proud of it too!  But this one doesn't carry the weight that "people know enough to try to be good" has for me.  I just don't think this would be so apart from the imprint of God.  

For me, too, is the idea of personality.  Babies have personality from the very beginning.  I don't believe in the idea of tabula rasa.  To me, personality is equivalent with "soul."  From the very moment of birth, children have different ways of reacting, responding, different things upset or calm them, some have challenging personalities right from the beginning.  That, for me, leads in the direction of "soul" & it seems to me that, somehow, that is something that continues.  Of course, this idea gets a bit muddy when i see that most animals have personality as well.  That is, frankly, why i lean toward vegetarianism.  How can i eat something with personality (soul)?


Now, feeling i have bits of "a strong faith" doesn't mean i haven't doubts.  There are odd times when i think, "What if it is not so?  What if when we die there IS nothing more?"  Part of me thinks that i'll be very disappointed.  There are many places i've not gone here on Earth, because, quite frankly i'm content to wait & see them in the "New World" to come.  I would miss all of that.  I won't be meeting the children we've lost; i won't be seeing dear ones who have "gone before," i won't be meeting Jesus, i won't be seeing GOD.  But, of course, if there is nothing more i won't know all those things.  It won't matter.  


But those moments of strong doubt are brief.  In general, when i hear someone i know has died, my response has been, "They get to be with Jesus!  They are with God!"  Of course, very soon after that the reality  & sorrow of loss sets in.  But frankly i will admit, my first response is usually, "They are with Jesus!"  (And i'm jealous for that moment.)


However, this also doesn't stop me from seeing the cruel twists of life:  Cancer in children, & loss of young mothers; earthquakes & volcanoes, rain & floods that do so much damage & loss of life; serial killers & pedophiles; folks who don't want children have them, folks who desperately want them don't; some folks get to have 18 children & others none at all; chronic illnesses that devastate lives. I have some answers for some of this (usually very critical of people's choices) but in general, life of unfairness & death in innocents disturb me very much.

And if God really pulls all the strings as some folks claim, how can we understand so much of the unfairness?  It seems that the flip side of "the Lord provides" definitely is that "the Lord takes away."  For those he blesses with children, has he cursed those of us without?  The righteous & the unrighteous alike are mowed down & sometimes it seems the righteous get it harder than those who don't honor God.  How can we be intelligent, thinking beings & NOT question these things?


Yet our answer is no more than was given Job:  God is not in need of the approval of his creation.  He is free.  Jason did a good job in this chapter of talking of how Jesus, in many ways, did not elucidate God or the nature of God very well at all.  He essentially told us:  God is a mystery.  We cannot define him, box him, study him as we would nature, we cannot capture, hold, or pin him down.  We can, occasionally feel the effects of him, but beyond that we have very little to go on.  


It was my intent to write, as well, on belief systems, how & why we box ourselves &/or God into tight places.


But this is long enough.  


I will reiterate:  In some ways i feel i have a very strong, firm faith.  I'm very thankful for it.  Some of it is due to attending a church that doesn't believe as i do because it has helped me to refine/define/clarify what i do believe & what i feel is important.  Honestly, i don't believe that too much of what i believe is all that important.  The basic tenants of the Nicene creed do for me.  The rest simply comes down to obedience.  


G, when we joined the Lutheran church (this was my first red flag) wanted to insist that we MUST believe that at the moment of accepting communion, it was transformed to be both bread/wine & body/blood.  Frankly, i don't care either way & i don't consider it all that important.  I think the act of obedience to the command of Jesus, regardless of my belief, is what is important.  


This, plus my own doubts & weaknesses would damn me to hell in the thinking of G.  In his thinking, any fear or doubt or depression means lack of faith in God & is the path to hell.  This is why parts of my faith are strong:  I've spent over 2 years countering such thought.  

I've also disagreed with G that we need to convince other people that they are bad or evil.  My thought is, let them believe they are "good" all they want.  Why argue?  The reality is they probably ARE good people, as people standards go.  Kind of like someone who can broad jump 18 feet when most of us can only broad jump 8.  They are far & away better at it than the rest of us.  But will that extra 10 feet make a difference when trying to broad jump the Grand Canyon?  We all plummet without the saving grace of the sacrifice Jesus made.  G was "offended" by my argument because it flew in the face of everything he has believed, but he could find no fault with my reasoning.  It didn't change how he sees fallen man, however.  Nor his preaching that we are evil little people, not worthy of God's grace & probably won't "make it" anyway, due to our fears & doubts.


I've still my weak parts of faith, & that is why i so very much appreciate the book, O Me of Little Faith.  :)


27

Why?

I'm not a person who asks, "Why?" often.  I think in particular, i don't ask that of God.  More than anything else because i don't expect i'll get an answer.  Any question to God that begins "Why . . . " seems to result in a default response of "Your question in not in a form to which i can respond."



That didn't have a lot of meaning to this post, just a gratuitous thought on questioning God.


My "why" question today is a little more direct.  "Why have we been going to this Lutheran church for over 3 years?"


Several times i've shared with other people different things that G has preached & with which i felt profound discomfort.  More than once the response has been, "And you're still going there?  Why are you still going there?" 



My answer has invariably been, "Because i feel God wants me there," or "I feel we are called to be there."



I will be frank, i'm not a big believer in "the will of God," or "God's perfect plan."  I tend to be more of the "lo que sera sera" ("what will be will be") mindset.  



But it felt right to be at that church.  There were many positive things that drew us there.  So it was right, until it wasn't any more.  The "it isn't right anymore" happened very quickly.  We had talked about our issues, worried over them, prayed about it, etc. for months, even a year or more.  Then between about the 27th of May & the 4th of June, bam!  It was done.  



Part of the reason that i felt it right to be at that church for so long was that i felt it was "stretching" me.  Duane & i spent much time discussing the homilies G gave, & where we disagreed & why & what our own beliefs are, & what we felt the scripture meant.  I think this has probably strengthened my faith more than i could begin to imagine.  



I'm not boasting in my strength, but i can frankly say that i feel very strong in my faith.  It rather surprises me how strong i feel.  It is rather like i've been exercising a muscle for the past months/years & now, when it is called upon, it responds in a manner that is so easy i'm shocked.  I know that had this happened a few years ago, i would have been devastated. 


When i was in a difficult place many years ago, i used the analogy of a plant.  I told someone that i had a scrawny plant of faith, maybe just a couple of wilted leaves on it.  But that the root, while tiny, maybe not much more than a thread, went very, very deep & was rooted & grounded.  I'm currently feeling like that plant of faith has grown a lot & maybe even blossomed.


In many ways i considered myself a "spiritual weakling**."  In many ways i am.   I still struggle with bitterness & disappointment.  I still don't understand many of the things in the world i find so incredibly perplexing.  I'm still going to be talking about the book on spiritual doubt that i've mentioned.  But i do know very well the things i do believe & i hang onto them tightly. 



I also see timing as critical.  I don't know if what i hope to happen will happen, but the timing was important.  IF we had left even 2 weeks sooner than we did, we would not have heard G's sermons that crossed from questionable into definite heresy.  Because we were there to witness that, we were able to bring it to the elders' attention.  



G has gone on defensive.  M told me G said, "I have teeth" (from my post on the 13th).   Duane said, in response to this, that it is the dog who feels cornered who bites.  If G really wasn't threatened by our charges, he wouldn't need to bite.  


I don't think the changes i think this church needs & i hope will happen will occur, certainly not very soon.  But we hope seeds are planted that will produce the awareness of the need for change.   



We have not heard anything from the church.  Duane doesn't think we will.  I can't imagine that they won't respond.  It seems to me that even just a letter stating that "they" (whether the elders or council, i don't know - probably not the congregation) voted & upheld G's stand.  Thus far we have heard nothing. 






** Oh Me of Little Faith

26

Yada, yada, whinging about the weekend

I bit the bullet & had the brief discussion with the pastor regarding what happened on Friday.   I'm feeling almost worse over the conversation than if i had left it alone.

I asked when he called the insurance company & he didn't know what i was talking about.  When i said, "At what point did you call the insurance company & find out they wouldn't cover what i do?"  he told me he never made a call.  I must have looked blank. 


He said, "I didn't have to.  Anything not directly related to what we do here, church-related, is not covered."


(Hello??? You think your rummage sale is covered?  You've a greater chance at being sued for someone tripping in the parking lot than the work i do.  If your rummage sale is covered, then my doing work for donations to the church is covered as well.  If i'm not covered, i can't see how the rummage sale/fundraiser would be.)


He told me "No one knew you were coming."  


(???  I told the lady in charge three different times i would be there.)


He agreed that what happened would make me feel disrespected, but again stated, "No one knew you were coming."  He also said that had anyone known i was coming, he probably would have said i could do it this year, but not in future years.  Water under the bridge.  As he never knew what occurred Friday AM, he is not responsible for the reaction of the lady who was running the show.



I told him there is very little chance that i'd ever be sued & that i have insurance.  It made no difference to him.  "Churches, especially conservative churches, are being sued more & more," was his response.


Don't i know it?  Our church down the hill is about to be taken from the people who paid for & built it because the diocese has laid claim to it.  That church did everything it could to protect itself from the position in which it find itself, but it didn't make any difference.  Does that mean that God is removed from this process? The people there are distressed, but are trusting God to be in their midst.


I totally agree with taking necessary precautions.  But there is also over the top.  I think what he has chosen to do is over the top.  If he is that concerned, he shouldn't have the rummage sale there, either.  

I could have done something that was beneficial for the church, beneficial for the people i worked on, that would have raised a small amount of money for them, & would have had virtually no risk.  That i was told i could not do so on some mythical risk seems to me to outline the problems i'm having in this church.   


This pastor tells us to trust God & have faith in him, but then does something like this that seems to negate all the trust & faith.  If i was in a profession that had a higher risk of being sued, i could completely understand the concern.  That is not the case.  If this dubious chance of being sued was something truly potential, then yes, by all means err on the side of caution.  As there is essentially no risk, why not do good & trust God?


Amrita, you are right, we are worlds apart.  In the US, folks sue at the drop of a pin if they think they can get money for it.  It does happen.  But again, i think the church runs a greater risk of that by having folks buy stuff from us that is used.  Or by selling hot dogs.  If someone really wanted to be devious & sue the church, we have cracks in the pavement they could "trip" on & have a way to sue us.  It hasn't happened yet, in years of running this rummage sale.  But our pastor believes that people are evil, & cannot be good.  I tend to believe that most people want to be/try to be good & honest (even tho none of us can ever be as good as God). 


It was kind of the final straw for me today, when in his sermon he yelled at us about not being joyful.  He asked the congregation of we believe what we actually say in the Apostle's Creed.  Yes, of course, was the response.  "THEN WHY AREN'T YOU JOYFUL?" he shouted.  "If you believe what we state in the creed, you have to be joyful.  If you aren't joyful, you aren't saved."  (This just after telling us that if we don't know if we are saved or not, we're not reading the Bible; the Bible gives us the hope & promise of salvation.)  The fact is i do, on occasion, feel that incredible joy of my salvation, of being part of God & having him in my life & that has never occurred after being chastised like this in church. 


Duane responded negatively to his joyful stuff, too.  But he didn't recognize it for what it was:  Manipulation & shaming.  


Ok, he & i have now talked about this in depth.  This is what it comes down to:  This church doesn't work for us.  But we've an emotional attachment to it & the people there.  Therefore, we feel badly that it "doesn't work."  It hurts that we need to leave it.  It doesn't mean that we should stay.  It means that it hurts to leave.  It doesn't mean that we are judging it bad or criticizing it in a way to be gossiping or creating problems.  It.Just.Does.Not.Work.


Move on. 



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Interesting

The class i'm currently taking is a hands-on class about healing.  Some time ago now, Dr. John Upledger discovered that working with certain rhythms within the body (the CranioSacral rhythm, which much of current medical model doesn't even yet recognize) would help a person heal & often very dramatically.  

Because this rhythm is very subtle, the work is gentle & also very subtle.  This spills over into energy work & other "woo-woo" practices.  Yet it does work & often very powerfully.

Yesterday in class i was looking at the group formations & how they were doing certain energy-healing techniques.  What i found most fascinating was that the groups looked like some prayer-healing groups i have attended.  (Okay, i think i've only been to 2 or 3 of these, but the groupings looked similar.  Also the stance & attitude of the folks involved.)  

I think i've said before that "new age" stuff doesn't scare me.  I find that often they have "tapped into" something that God has created.  The folks who credit "the universe" or something similar just haven't met the author & creator of the energy/techniques which they are using.

 

That is how i see much of the work in this particular workshop.  I don't know the beliefs of Dr. Upledger, but it seems to me that he has "discovered" much of the type of healing that is done by prayer & laying on of hands.

I am not ashamed of Jesus, nor to be affiliated with Christ our Lord, but i do hesitate to identify myself as "Christian."  It seems to me that the meaning of that word is largely lost in our society, & identifying myself as "Christian" can lead to many misunderstandings.

On break today i mentioned to another lady that i am a Christian & how that the work we'd done the day before reminded me of laying on of hands/prayers for healing.

Her comment was that she is a Christian, but that she doesn't believe that Jesus is the only way to God.  She mentioned other "enlightened" prophets thru the centuries.  I wasn't as blunt as to tell her that not believing Jesus is the only path to God by default/definition means that she is not a Christian, but i did discuss the various beliefs, & how that Jesus, to Christian belief, is unique among all the "enlightened prophets."

This does seem to be common in our culture:  Believing that simply having a belief in "God" or a "higher power" makes on a Christian.  

Right or wrong, good or bad, (even tho this sounds rigid & i don't like that) to be "Christian" requires more than just "belief."  It isn't a vague set of values.  It requires a commitment & sometimes it requires things i don't personally care for.  I don't fully understand God as presented by the Bible (& you could be worried about me if i said that i do).  There is much about God that i'm not even sure i like.  

But i do believe that God is good.  That he loves us & expressed that love by sending Jesus.  That to reject Jesus is to reject God.  

So, even tho i don't understand, i trust that what he says is true.  

I don't know where i'm going with this post.  Just recording some observations about the class & this lady's comments which i found interesting.

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I struggle with titles

I always have so much to say "in my head" & have such a hard time "putting it on paper."

Duane & i have been "church hopping" as i've not been very comfortable at the church where we are members.  We don't expect to find a place that fits us, which is why we don't plan to settle somewhere.  We plan to continue to "hop" for some time.  

I do feel kind of strange - the Lutheran Church thinks we've not been there because of illness.  They sent me a flower arrangement.  I told someone i felt guilty, but that's not true.  I just feel kind of odd, weird.

The big problem has been how do we decide where to go on a particular Sunday?  I don't really want to leave it up to how i feel any one day.  When i do that, we might fall into the pattern - like last week - of not going anywhere at all.  We could do it as:  The first Sunday we go to X, the second Sunday we go to Y . . . 

Duane suggested that we choose 6 churches (not including the Lutheran - we do intend to go there still "regularly," maybe once every six weeks or so), & assign them a number.  Then roll a die.  I laughed when he suggested it, & he got a little defensive, but i wasn't laughing at him or putting down his idea.  It is as good as any other.  I just laughed because i thought it the strangest way to choose a church i'd ever heard.

__________________________

I've several windows open on the computer because i wanted to write about what was there, but not to bookmark them.  Bookmarks tend to get lost in the shuffle frankly.  If i keep a window open, eventually i have to do something with it.

The first i have open in as interview at the blog The Church of No People.  It is an interview with someone named Jason.  He talked of his experience growing up in an Evangelical church.

Until my last couple years of high school, my biggest doubts were about my salvation. I grew up in a very evangelistic church culture.  Lots of traveling evangelists came through, and they were very good at getting people worked up about whether or not they really knew Jesus as their savior, and whether or not they were going to hell. I had friends, and even parents of friends, who got "saved" multiple times. I never had the guts to get re-saved, but I spent most of my adolescent and teen years worried that I wasn't officially a child of God, in the born-again evangelical sense.


Then, once I got past the am-I-saved-or-not? doubts, I moved on to bigger and wilder doubts -- the ones about whether or not God even exists. That's where I've been for the last decade or so. The biggest stumbling block for me has been education. The more I learn about the Bible and the history of theology, the more I learn about science and the human brain, the more I learn about philosophy and psychology and sociology, the more I wonder whether religion is just something we've made up. 

You’ve pointed out that your Christian background is southern Baptist. Have you found the Baptist church (or any church for that matter) to be a really good place to explore issues of doubt?

Um, no. Though of course there are pockets of grace and understanding everywhere, the Baptist church as a whole is not one that is comfortable with uncertainty. It is steadfastly conservative in politics, in theology, and in practice. Doubts are, by definition, not very conservative. But I'm part of a creative and merciful small-church community that has allowed me to play a significant role here despite my doubts and questions. 

This was definitely my experience, especially the "Lots of traveling evangelists came thru, & they were very good at getting people worked up about whether or not they really knew Jesus as their savior, & whether or not they were going to hell."  I don't know why it is that this seems to be the evangelical version of preaching.  In my growing up, it wasn't just traveling evangelists, however.  Every week the pastor would preach in a manner that indicated that we just couldn't be sure & we'd better repent.  Every service would have an "altar call."  

This is why i found the Episcopal/Anglican church to be such a relief to me.  It is not that they didn't recognize that people need Jesus, but that they did this bringing folks to the Lord in what i consider a more responsible manner.  It is also why i'm struggling some with the Lutheran Church.  The Lutheran Church evidentally doesn't believe that we can be sure about salvation.

Now, frankly, i'm not a "once saved, always saved" kind of person.  But:

1 Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus . . . 16 The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God's children. 17  Now if we are children, then we are heirs--heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory . . . 38 For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39 neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Romans 8:1;16, 17;38,39 NIV

I firmly believe that if we desire to be "in Christ" & part of God's kingdom, we have that freedom & the security of knowing we belong to God.  Conversely, for the folks who want no part of God, even if they claimed to be Christians at one time, i do not believe God will force himself on them.  As someone i love to read (Anna by Fynn) once said, "God is a gentleman." 

I know that i once struggled with the security of "knowing" i was saved, i doubted my salvation.  But God does not lie.  Now, as an adult & somewhat more mature, i don't understand the preaching that makes folks feel insecure.  God has promised us life with him if we are "in Christ Jesus."  What is there to doubt???

______________________

I came across another post that really spoke to me.  It is called "Why do they hate us?" by a blogger called The Internet Monk.  Evidently he died very recently.  The Jason of the last section was giving tribute to him & mentioned this post.  It is speaking of Evangelical Christians.  

It resonates with me.  I am a Christian, & therefore i really struggle with much of my feelings (mostly negative) of the Evangelical persuasion.  I've not had good or happy experiences with much of my time with that particular doctrine, & i don't necessarily agree or accept much of what they push. 

(Disclaimer here, i've several friends of the Evangelical bent, & i love them very much.  This is not directed at any one person.)

I think what i find difficult is that many Evangelicals tend to be so rigid.  I've already run into it up here, the Baptist Church claiming, "We're the only ones who've got it right."  I do not, of course, believe that "all roads lead to God."  However, that said, within Jesus Christ, i believe that there are a number of different ways that God uses to lead us, call us, use us.  I don't believe there is any one church that "has it all right" simply because the Gospels are too broad.  We humans have a hard time with that & tend to narrow it to a doctrine we can grasp. 

But i do struggle with what i was taught as a child, that is, the Evangelicals are the only ones who are right & the rest are lost.  That the only way to be a Christian is to do ________, & _________, & __________.  Usually having to do with Bible reading & devotions & church attendance.  

Um, it seems to me that we are back to law.  But i know a lot of folks caught in that web.  I know of 5 people who were raised in the (Evangelical) church where i was raised who as young adults left the church never to return (to my knowledge, i've not been in touch with them in years).  I know another one who didn't leave the church but was so crippled by her doubts about her salvation & that God could "really" love her (she believed she had to be a goat not a sheep) that her functioning was impaired.  I ached for her beliefs - tho they mirrored mine - not believing God wanted her to live in that despair.  But she couldn't/wouldn't listen to my arguments, for we had been taught that the Evangelical/Baptist teachings were all that were right & true.  

Again, i just don't believe God desires his chosen, his children to live in such despair & defeat.  For 99 out of 100 folks attending those churches, they perhaps don't have a problem with this.  For the 1 percent of us, however, it can be a real struggle.  

Another post from The Internet Monk: Why I am a Christian 

___________________________

I can't claim that i'm living "as i should" as a Christian.  Since the end of Lent, i've struggled with devotions & even talking to God regularly.  I still struggle some with bitterness that "God won't give" me what i desire.  I have a hard time with Christian novels where the person struggles & struggles & struggles & then submits & suddenly life is great & they achieve their hearts' desires.  

I don't think it is real.  I don't think it happens all that often.  God's promises to the people of the New Covenant, to folks of the New Testament age, to Christians are the hope of new life in Christ & in the kingdom to come.  I think we in the US, we of a lot of privilege forget this.  Prosperity gospel is a lie. 

I think we forget that there are people who die for the gospel, who are persecuted, who lose what they have.  I think we forget that there are a lot of people who don't have that "happy ending" of novels here on earth.  

That said, of course i want my happy ending.  I struggle with my reality, but even tho i struggle, i accept that my life is not going to follow the pattern my desires would dictate.

What is more, i don't want to be a "cultural Christian."  This is going to sound judgmental, & i don't mean it to be, but i don't want to attend a church just for it to become a social club for me.  

Now, don't get me wrong.  I want to make friends & to have more folks in my life.  Duane & i seem too isolated to me.  I think we need to develop more relationships.  Church is a good place for that to happen.  But i don't want my social & cultural status in a church to define me as a Christian.  I don't know if i'm saying this right.

Some months ago i began following a blog called "Stuff Christians Like."  Some of the things he said early on resonated with me & made an impact.  But as time went on, i found that much of it did not, because i'm not part of that cultural Christianity, & i don't want to be.  Some of what he was talking about became more clear to me in some of the churches we've visited.  

I met someone else recently who commented on this.  She mentioned a specific church (which we have visited) & said she was surprised at her treatment there.  She said she sat in a "dead zone" with about 15 feet on all sides of her empty.  The people didn't want to meet new folks, they wanted to be with their friends.  That was our experience at that church as well.  It also had the requsite band at the front who played half an hour of contemporary worship music before the pastor got up to do a 50 minute sermon.  

Now, please don't misunderstand me.  I'm not knocking this church.  It does preach the Gospel, not a watered down version or some prosperity junk.  I'm sure it meets the needs in the lives of many.  I'm sure it helps people meet Jesus & learn about being a Christian.  As i said earlier, i believe that within the Christian faith there are many different variations that honor God.

But i don't want to be part of that.  To me, for me, it would be too shallow.  It would be taking a cultural way of being a Christian, & that i don't want.  I just don't know how to say it well, & given my current lack of real spiritual discipline it even sounds hypocritical, but i want something deeper.

That's enough for one night, i think.  It is clear why i've not written in a while.  I've so much bottled up inside that it has been difficult to write - & very wordy as well.  

The peace of the Lord be always with you !  :)

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