It is an exact copy of what we sent to the pastor & three elders, with identifiers removed. We are praying that these letters will make a difference to the direction in which this church is headed. There is so much more we would like to say here, like the idea of cults, & other things preached which at least border on heresy, but i think we said the salient things. We haven't much hope that this will make a difference as the elders tend to rubber-stamp what is said by the pastor. We hope that the reality of what has been said will sink in, but haven't much belief it will happen. If they follow protocol, however, the whole voting congregation will have to vote on this.
7 June 2010
Mr. G
SITP Lutheran Church
Big Bear Lake, CA 92315
Dear G -
At the time of your conversation with Kathryn on Friday 4 June, she readily agreed to your edicts without thinking through the implications and consequences. Duane was not even included in this discussion. He should have been the person to whom the call was made. We had already determined we would bring this issue to you and that Duane as the head of our household would be the one to do so.
If you were able to explain to the congregation in Sunday service why attending other churches is a serious offense worthy of ex-communication, we would very much like that explanation given to us as well. We were not aware that it was an offense against (the local) church, nor that it merited a punitive response, and we felt that we were doing this for a very good reason, which we would be happy to explain to the elders or the church at large. We have researched Lutheran doctrine and the usage of ex-communication as far as we were able and have found nothing that indicates such a response was warranted.
The only person of whom we are aware of having been ex-communicated from a church (Episcopal) was guilty of egregiously sinful behavior, deliberately spreading disaffection and dissent through the body of that church. Even so, the vestry of that church spent much time (months), pain, and prayer before they voted to follow that path. Every effort was made to bring the person involved back into fellowship before taking this very serious measure.
To our knowledge, we are not aware of egregious behavior on our part. We have worked very hard not to talk with other members of SITP of our concerns so as not to create disaffection and dissent in the body. Our understanding is that the decision to excommunicate us was made in a very rapid manner without the knowledge or vote of the elders or congregation. We are surprised and even shocked that such a weighty decision could be made with so little regard. We are also surprised in light of the weekly invitation to communion in the church bulletin that invites all Christians “who share our Biblical faith and understanding of the sacrament” to partake regardless of their church background. We took this invitation to mean that the church accepts open communion.
In our thinking, ex-communication is a very serious thing, not to be done quickly, lightly, or without the support of the church or church leaders. In every case we have found in our search to understand, it occurred in regard to unrepentant sin. This carries with it a very painful disgrace not easily accepted, especially without proper explanation. It concerns us that one man in the church has this much power and authority and has done this outside of proper channels and without check, disregarding proper protocol for such a step.
Please share the manner of our transgression, the nature of why it is misconduct, and what warrants ex-communication with us at your earliest convenience.
Thank you for your time and attention. The Peace of the Lord be with you.
Sincerely,
Duane and Kathryn
cc: elders
Here is what Martin Luther has to say on the subject in his book, Luther's Small Catechism.
279. What great care must be taken in dealing with an openly unrepentant sinner?
*****The Christian congregation must carry out church discipline in love and patience.
See: (Mathew 18:15-17)(Galatians 6:1-2)(Ephesians 4:2-3)
280. What must the congregation finally do with openly unrepentant sinners?
*****The Christian congregation must exclude openly unrepentant sinners (excommunication).
See: (1 Corinthians 5:13)
281. By what authority does the congregation excommunicate openly unrepentant sinners?
*****Excommunication is authorized by Christ and is just as valid and certain, even in heaven, as if Christ our dear Lord dealt with us Himself.
See: (Mathew 18:18)
282. What is the duty of the called minister of Christ when the congregation has excommunicated a sinner?
*****The called minister of Christ must carry out the resolution of the congregation, that is, he must exclude the excommunicated person from the rights and privileges of a Christian.
283. What is the purpose of excommunication?
*****Excommunication is not intended to punish the sinner,
A. but to lead him or her to repentance and faith;
B. prevent him or her from leading others into sin.
See: (Mathew 12:20)(Acts 3:19)(Mathew 18:6)(1 Corinthians 5:6)
284. What is the duty of a congregation toward an excommunicated sinner who repents?
*****The congregation must forgive any excommunicated person who repents and receive him or her back into full fellowship.
See: (2 Corinthians 2:7-8)
The next section can be found online at this address:
http://www.iclnet.org/pub/
A Report of the
Commission on Theology and Church Relations
of the Lutheran Church--Missouri Synod
November 1985
(Section) V
Specific Questions Regarding Church Discipline
in the Christian Congregation
1. What is the role of the pastor in church discipline? The pastor's role varies. Members will approach him with problems, reports, or gossip. What course should they pursue with one who has grieved them? What, if anything, should be done with gossip about themselves or others? In answering these and similar questions, the pastor serves as counselor to his flock, directing them on the basis of Holy Scripture in their dealings with fellow Christians.
In some cases, for example, when a member of the congregation has been guilty of sin against him personally, when one despises the means of grace, or persists in seeking an unscriptural divorce, the pastor may be involved from the very first step of discipline.
Officially, the pastor is more frequently a part of church discipline at the time when the problem and/or sin is reported to him, God's undershepherd, for transmission "to the church."
2. May a pastor suspend a person from communion? Although a pastor may not himself excommunicate without the congregation, he may, in the interest of a person's spiritual welfare, refuse to commune one whose presence at the altar would be a source of offense to other members of the congregation, or one living in unrepentant sin who is still being dealt with on a personal basis by himself or others. If, for example, a member has embezzled church funds and the matter is known but the problem has not been resolved (there has been neither absolution on the one hand nor excommunication on the other), the pastor may insist that the party involved absent himself from the table of the Lord. This suspension must always be temporary, however until the matter has been resolved in one way or the other. Any appeal from such suspension must be acted on properly by the congregation, with the party involved, by virtue of the appeal thereby forfeiting any privacy that may have previously been his. Obviously the pastor has no right to suspend a member simply because the member has disagreed with him, for example in some matter of church polity where the Word of God has not spoken.
(We added here - k): In every case we have looked at excommunication, SIN is the issue whether by adultery, embezzlement, or the sin of seeking to create dissension/disaffection in the body/within the church.
In no case have we found any indication that attending (or even communing with) another church falls under the classification of a sin justifying grounds for excommunication.
Nor have we found any support of a pastor making this decision to excommunicate without a vote from the elders, council, and/or full congregation.
Based on this, the excommunication implemented solely by G can not be considered valid until it has gone through proper channels and voted on as outlined by standard church protocol.
7 June 2010
Mr. G
SITP Lutheran Church
Big Bear Lake, CA 92315
Dear G -
We find that there is no way we can send the first letter without including a second with it.
There have been a number of things said from the pulpit in the past months which we have had difficulty grasping. One thing above all continually stands out, however, and we cannot leave this church without bringing it to your attention and that of the elders.
While you always preach the power of Christ crucified and resurrected, we find that often things are said which undermine that doctrine and the security of our salvation with other things.
Specifically, salvation is never based on one's own feelings or emotions. We can find no scripture justifying such preaching. Allowing emotion and the emotional state of the person to dictate whether they (believe they) are saved is leaving a huge gap for the person to fall into doubt and perhaps unbelief. Allowing emotion to dictate is choosing to allow ourselves to be “tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine.” Ephesians 4:14
Life has a number of challenges and changes which effect our emotions. People tend to be tossed to and fro, and emotions change. God is unchangeable, and it is to him and his promises we must cling in order to survive.
There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death . . . What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us? . . . Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? . . . For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 8 : 1, 2, 31, 35, 38, 39 KJV
Emotion is not mentioned specifically in these verses, but neither can we find anything that justifies the idea that emotion on our part can rescind our salvation. Jesus himself said,
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: and I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. John 10 : 27-29 KJV
Outside of the book of Psalms, we find no reference to “the joy of my salvation.”
We believe it dangerous to tell people that their salvation is dependent upon whether or not they feel the joy of their salvation, or if they fear death. Saying these things is manipulative and shaming. Producing unwarranted shame in the children of God does not serve a purpose. Unjustified feelings of guilt is nonproductive and brings fear of the loss of their salvation. Guilt or shame for real sin is legitimate. Guilt for emotion or doubt is harmful and serves no purpose and often much harm. Human emotion is fickle and cannot be trusted as a guide to the Christian life nor to the assurance of salvation.
Even if this was not the meaning of the finale of your sermon of 30 May, G, this is what was conveyed: My salvation is at the whim of my hormones, moods, feelings/emotions, and whether I am having a “good day.” Leaving the belief in my salvation up to my feeling that joy is setting up the people of God to be tossed about at the whims of these very human states. But we have been promised that nothing can snatch us out of the hand of Jesus, that nothing can separate us from the love of God. That Christ crucified has pardoned us and nothing will stand between us and that salvation. To teach a doctrine contrary to this is to promote heresy.
Once a person has made a decision to align themselves with the crucified and resurrected Jesus and makes the choice to believe and live what is expressed in the Apostles' and Nicene creeds, the only thing that can rob them of their salvation is for that person to tell God that they no longer want a part of him or his kingdom. Encouraging people to believe that they can easily or lightly remove themselves from the kingdom of God is to encourage them to live in constant doubt, fear, and enslavement to the very things from which Jesus came to free them.
Specifically, I (Kathryn) never felt “joy in my salvation” for many, many years after I prayed to accept Jesus as my Savior and to enter my life, many years post-baptism. As a child, I often cried about this lack of joy and believed that it was an indication that somehow I was not saved, that God had not honored his promise, and that I would not join him in heaven. As I matured as a Christian, I came to recognize that God's promises are true regardless of what my emotions would tell me. Relying on an emotion as a gauge for my Christian walk or salvation status is a very dangerous thing. Rather than checking my emotions, I choose to cling to the Cross and the promises made. Happily, joyfully, recently for the first time I experienced this overwhelming joy. It is transient, however, and not a constant in my life. What IS constant is the promise of God. I cling to that and not to emotion.
Hearing sermons continually week after week which encourage the listener to question and doubt their salvation is not productive to the life of the Christian and we both strongly encourage the leadership of SITP to examine these teachings and where they lead. We are concerned that the way this has been preached, people have not been able to differentiate between opinion and gospel.
We were told when we joined this congregation that if at any time the “teachings are no longer Biblically sound” that we should leave. Holding the Bible as the compass, we cannot continue to support such preaching. Also hearing continually from the pulpit and in personal conversation that “the other churches” no longer honor Christ, we could not let this go without researching it further. The other churches we visited may have a form of worship with which we are not comfortable, we in no case found that the churches which hold to conservative beliefs have stopped preaching the power of the resurrected Jesus. We find it ironic that in researching the truth of these claims, we find ourselves excommunicated.
Please do know that we hold you and STIP in the highest of esteem. This is not meant to be a personal attack on you or on the church itself. We are merely very concerned of the direction of such preaching that result in bondage to emotion, doubt, and fear instead of encouraging the freedom Jesus came to provide for his people.
While we very much love this church and her people, we cannot support the doctrine that (certain) feelings are essential to salvation. To leave salvation to the whim of emotion is to negate the power of Christ crucified.
Sincerely, and with the love of Christ,
Duane and Kathryn
cc: elders
23
Ed. I had some problems with this in the new format & so had to delete it & repost. Sorry. Also, here are the comments, so i don't lose them:
- Amrita said...
- Well done Kathryn. Both letters are thoughtfully and sensitively worded . I back you in this. You do not deserve ex-communication. The Pastor and elders should have had a discussion with you before pronouncing this judgement.You never got a chance to express your feelings and opinion. This is unfair.Undemocratic. The light is about to go off. I will come back
- Wednesday, 09 June, 2010
- David said...
- well done, and artfully constructed. I can see that you have put much thought and a lot of love into these letters. We can pray that they have a good result
- Thursday, 10 June, 2010
- Jessica Renshaw said...
- Hallelujah and Amen!!!! God is glorified in your clear Biblical stand for truth, regardless of how it is received! But I'm glad you sent copies to board members other than G himself, so he can't just toss the evidence and pretend he never received it. These issues are too important and the consequences of the charges you make too serious for this to be swept under a rug.
- Thursday, 10 June, 2010
- Amrita said...
.JPG "Amrita")
- Do tell us if you get a response from the church board.
- Thursday, 10 June, 2010
- David said...
- i was musing on how CLOSED societies and DARK religions keep their people with walls or the threat of punishment for 'going outside' the group. How is this 'shunning' different than imprisonment or lashings in the muslim world? I am sorry for SITP - they are good people, with a difficult leader.
- Friday, 11 June, 2010
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